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Can't program a NOS Atlas Master Factory DCC

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  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Danbury Freight Yard
  • 459 posts
Posted by OldEngineman on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 12:04 PM

OP:

I had an Atlas engine (SD35) from that same production era, I never could get that factory-original decoder (the one with "the jumper") to work well. The engine would run, but it was noisy with what seemed to me to be "interference" introduced by the decoder itself.

My solution was simple:

I REMOVED the factory decoder, and installed a replacement.

Since you seem to be getting nowhere, this is the solution I recommend to you.

The decoder you want is a Soundtraxx MC2H104at.

This is a NON-sound motor-only decoder, that has the exact same dimensions as the factory board -- swaps out easily. It also has the same connections, should be an easy wire-for-wire replacement.

Although others in the forum would disagree, I always use the plastic "wire retainers" instead of soldering -- makes it easier when you need to disassemble again. Because someday you probably WILL need to "get into it" again.

Also, I WOULD use solder to "tin" the ends of the wires -- makes them stiffer and grips the retainers/contacts better.

Once I replaced the decoder, the engine now runs far, FAR better -- smooth and quiet. I predict the same results for you if you go this route.

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 2,771 posts
Posted by snjroy on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 2:27 PM

OldEngineman

Although others in the forum would disagree, I always use the plastic "wire retainers" instead of soldering -- makes it easier when you need to disassemble again. Because someday you probably WILL need to "get into it" again.

Also, I WOULD use solder to "tin" the ends of the wires -- makes them stiffer and grips the retainers/contacts better.

Once I replaced the decoder, the engine now runs far, FAR better -- smooth and quiet. I predict the same results for you if you go this route.

 

You are correct, I think the contacts should be soldered Smile. I've fixed a number of locomotives that were running erratically because of bad contacts exactly there. Only a small amount of soldering is required, and removing it is very easy: just place the iron a few seconds on the contact and the wires are easily removed.

Simon

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,853 posts
Posted by maxman on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 2:47 PM

Just to clarify, do you have an NCE PowerCab or the 5 amp ProCab system?

And are you using the "use program track" option on the controller menu?

I also suggest that you find a seperate piece of track and temporarily connect your DCC system to it.  That way you will remove any possibility of some extraneous source causing an issue.  And you will also be able to connect a voltmeter across the tracks to see if your DCC system is actually putting out any power.

(it probably is, but stranger things have happened)

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,853 posts
Posted by maxman on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 2:52 PM

OldEngineman
The decoder you want is a Soundtraxx MC2H104at.

I don't know the differences, but the Atlas decoder manual states:

  "As substitutes for the no longer available #342, Atlas recommends either the NCE DA-SR or the TCS A4X. Both of these decoders are drop-in replacements for the #342 decoder, and both the DA-SR decoder and the A4X decoders have many more features than the #342 decoder had."

Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,247 posts
Posted by tstage on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 5:22 PM

And I would opt for the TCS A4X for the better motor control.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 5:52 PM

The original Atlas decoder was before the era of "silent" decoders so it does make a kind of whining noise, as many c.2000 decoders did. On mine it's worked fine as far as power and lighting, but there are many better sound and non-sound decoders available now. 

BTW I'm not clear if the OP tried it on DC? If the engines been sitting in a box for 20 years, it might not want to start and could need relubrication an a good run in period - even if the decoder eventually gets changed.

Stix
  • Member since
    March 2012
  • 1,162 posts
Posted by PC101 on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 6:48 PM

wjstix

The original Atlas decoder was before the era of "silent" decoders so it does make a kind of whining noise, as many c.2000 decoders did. On mine it's worked fine as far as power and lighting, but there are many better sound and non-sound decoders available now. 

BTW I'm not clear if the OP tried it on DC? If the engines been sitting in a box for 20 years, it might not want to start and could need relubrication an a good run in period - even if the decoder eventually gets changed.

 

OP says both engines run fine on DC with the jumper set in analog position.

  • Member since
    July 2017
  • 88 posts
Posted by IbanezGuiness on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 10:02 PM

OldEngineman

OP:

I had an Atlas engine (SD35) from that same production era, I never could get that factory-original decoder (the one with "the jumper") to work well. The engine would run, but it was noisy with what seemed to me to be "interference" introduced by the decoder itself.

My solution was simple:

I REMOVED the factory decoder, and installed a replacement.

Since you seem to be getting nowhere, this is the solution I recommend to you.

The decoder you want is a Soundtraxx MC2H104at.

This is a NON-sound motor-only decoder, that has the exact same dimensions as the factory board -- swaps out easily. It also has the same connections, should be an easy wire-for-wire replacement.

Although others in the forum would disagree, I always use the plastic "wire retainers" instead of soldering -- makes it easier when you need to disassemble again. Because someday you probably WILL need to "get into it" again.

Also, I WOULD use solder to "tin" the ends of the wires -- makes them stiffer and grips the retainers/contacts better.

Once I replaced the decoder, the engine now runs far, FAR better -- smooth and quiet. I predict the same results for you if you go this route.

 

 

Thanks for this.

If I do replace the decoder I'd like to go ahead and add sound. 

Is there a drop in replacement decoder that has sound? 

  • Member since
    July 2017
  • 88 posts
Posted by IbanezGuiness on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 10:06 PM

maxman

Just to clarify, do you have an NCE PowerCab or the 5 amp ProCab system?

And are you using the "use program track" option on the controller menu?

I also suggest that you find a seperate piece of track and temporarily connect your DCC system to it.  That way you will remove any possibility of some extraneous source causing an issue.  And you will also be able to connect a voltmeter across the tracks to see if your DCC system is actually putting out any power.

(it probably is, but stranger things have happened)

 

I have the power cab. I currently have 2 layouts, one with the NCE power cab, and another layout with an MRC prodigy express. The NCE is on a small 4x8 layout, I recently bought a larger layout that came with and was already wired up for the MRC. I plan on removing the NCE from the smaller layout and selling that layout, and replacing the MRC with the NCE when I get time. 

The NCE controller and layout it is connected to does not have a programming track, and from what I understand the NCE power cab requires a seperate adapter for a programming track that I don't have and seems to be on backorder everywhere right now. Howeve in the past I've sucessfully programmed decoders with either the "program on the main" or "program on programming track" options anywhere on the "main" of that layout. 

The MRC controller and layout it is connected to does have a seperate programming track and I've tried programming these Atlas units on both the main and programming track with no results. 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • 1,162 posts
Posted by PC101 on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 10:50 PM

IbanezGuiness

If I do replace the decoder I'd like to go ahead and add sound. 

Is there a drop in replacement decoder that has sound? 

 

I do not know what is the "current best'' for a sound decoder. I have used TCS WOW sound decoders in many Atlas Locos. You will also want to ask here about what speaker will fit and is needed for the sound.

I need to look at what I used speaker wise and how/where the location of the speaker is.

OP, you might want to use a different word then (decoder) after the letters MRC in the third paragraph of your upper post. 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • 1,162 posts
Posted by PC101 on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 11:50 PM

IbanezGuiness

 

 
OldEngineman

OP:

I had an Atlas engine (SD35) from that same production era, I never could get that factory-original decoder (the one with "the jumper") to work well. The engine would run, but it was noisy with what seemed to me to be "interference" introduced by the decoder itself.

My solution was simple:

I REMOVED the factory decoder, and installed a replacement.

Since you seem to be getting nowhere, this is the solution I recommend to you.

The decoder you want is a Soundtraxx MC2H104at.

This is a NON-sound motor-only decoder, that has the exact same dimensions as the factory board -- swaps out easily. It also has the same connections, should be an easy wire-for-wire replacement.

Although others in the forum would disagree, I always use the plastic "wire retainers" instead of soldering -- makes it easier when you need to disassemble again. Because someday you probably WILL need to "get into it" again.

Also, I WOULD use solder to "tin" the ends of the wires -- makes them stiffer and grips the retainers/contacts better.

Once I replaced the decoder, the engine now runs far, FAR better -- smooth and quiet. I predict the same results for you if you go this route.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this.

If I do replace the decoder I'd like to go ahead and add sound. 

Is there a drop in replacement decoder that has sound? 

 

Wow times flies.

On Febuary 5, 2017 I installed in at least 6 Atlas GP-38's the TCS WOW KIT #1773-WDK-ATL-3. This kit consisted of 1) AK-MB1 ''mother board'', 1) WOW 121 Diesel "baby board?'' and 1) univ-SH1C & speaker.

The speaker is mounted and goo glued in the Dynamic brake hatch/blister facing down.

If there is something better then this at this time I am sure you will hear about it soon.

  • Member since
    July 2017
  • 88 posts
Posted by IbanezGuiness on Friday, July 12, 2024 5:27 PM

jdobo

Have you tried using the last 2 digits of the running number? I have a vague memory of Atlas using this as the default instead of 3 many years ago.

Regards Jon.

 

 

This worked!!!!!

 

At least on one locomotive, the one I haven't tried to reprogram multiple times. The road number is 2410, I put in address 10 and it took off perfectly. 

Interestingly I tried address 13 on the other locomotive which has a road number of 2413 and nothing. I'm guessing maybe all the attempts at programming this one messed something up? 

Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,247 posts
Posted by tstage on Friday, July 12, 2024 7:30 PM

If you do get around to installing a sound decoder in your Proto 2000 E-unit, I would suggest looking at Scale Sound Systems (SSS) LLPR-ESBK-RC1 and LLPR-ESFR-RC1 speakers...

https://www.scalesoundsystems.com/product-page/life-like-proto-2000-e-units-no-mod-rear-mount

The "ESBK" speaker is for the back end of the Proto E-units and the "ESFR" for the front.  I wired mine in-parallel with a Loksound 5 decoder and they sound terrific together. Yes

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,879 posts
Posted by YoHo1975 on Friday, July 12, 2024 8:42 PM

PC101

 

 
IbanezGuiness

 

 
OldEngineman

OP:

I had an Atlas engine (SD35) from that same production era, I never could get that factory-original decoder (the one with "the jumper") to work well. The engine would run, but it was noisy with what seemed to me to be "interference" introduced by the decoder itself.

My solution was simple:

I REMOVED the factory decoder, and installed a replacement.

Since you seem to be getting nowhere, this is the solution I recommend to you.

The decoder you want is a Soundtraxx MC2H104at.

This is a NON-sound motor-only decoder, that has the exact same dimensions as the factory board -- swaps out easily. It also has the same connections, should be an easy wire-for-wire replacement.

Although others in the forum would disagree, I always use the plastic "wire retainers" instead of soldering -- makes it easier when you need to disassemble again. Because someday you probably WILL need to "get into it" again.

Also, I WOULD use solder to "tin" the ends of the wires -- makes them stiffer and grips the retainers/contacts better.

Once I replaced the decoder, the engine now runs far, FAR better -- smooth and quiet. I predict the same results for you if you go this route.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this.

If I do replace the decoder I'd like to go ahead and add sound. 

Is there a drop in replacement decoder that has sound? 

 

 

 

Wow times flies.

On Febuary 5, 2017 I installed in at least 6 Atlas GP-38's the TCS WOW KIT #1773-WDK-ATL-3. This kit consisted of 1) AK-MB1 ''mother board'', 1) WOW 121 Diesel "baby board?'' and 1) univ-SH1C & speaker.

The speaker is mounted and goo glued in the Dynamic brake hatch/blister facing down.

If there is something better then this at this time I am sure you will hear about it soon.

 

 

It would be called a daughter board. in this case a 21pin decoder.

 

the TCS boards are nice, because they are tailor made for the loco and have built in keep alives, but the cost is pretty high.

 

Nixtrains Decoder buddy is a more generic option. It isn't quite as form fitting....but it only costs $10 and has a detachable daughtercard that you wire the lights to so when you pull the shell out you don't have to deal with wires going everywhere.

https://yankeedabbler.com/products/nixtrainz-decoder-buddy-version-v5b-ntz5-motherboard-for-21-pin-decoders-scale-ho-nix-decoderbuddy?variant=47725625671988&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwqMO0BhA8EiwAFTLgIKtFzPSyVopnoxHa0f7qC0zP2x97yOSNHzWbfZmk0CEu3-vkouIavxoCZPAQAvD_BwE

 

Worth noting that both the decoder buddy and the TCS board work with any manufacturer 21 pin decoder. So you can get the tCS board and put a soundtraxxx decoder on it.

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 533 posts
Posted by Tophias on Saturday, July 13, 2024 9:30 AM

I can second YoHo1975's suggestion regarding using Decoder Buddies. I had never installed a decoder and over the past winter decided it was time to learn. I pulled out original QSI decoders out of 6 various diesels and installed Decoder Buddies and then plugged in 21 pin decoders (some Soundtraxx, some LokSound). Easy Peasey! And I suggest for speakers Scale Sound Systems (SSS). They are individually designed for particular manufacturer/models and sound great.

Regards, Chris 

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Saturday, July 13, 2024 4:18 PM

IbanezGuiness
Interestingly I tried address 13 on the other locomotive which has a road number of 2413 and nothing. I'm guessing maybe all the attempts at programming this one messed something up?

Could be. Maybe try manually resetting some CVs. Set CV29 to 6. Set CV17&18 (long address) each to zero. Then set CV1 (short address) to 13. See if it recognizes it. If it does, you can always go back later and make changes like using the long address, adding momentum, etc., but let's see if it works OK first.

Stix

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