The website, Wiring for DCC, suggests attaching two jumpers to Atlas turnouts. One jumper between the left side stock rail + closure rail and another jumper between the right side stock rail + closure rail. Is this a common practice if one may switch to DCC? I did not use the jumpers on my earlier mounted Atlas turnouts and had no problems.
Rick:
I use Atlas Customline turnouts (code 100) both #4 and#6 and have not added any jumpers. I have painted my track and haven't had any problems with DCC performance. Theoretically, the pivot between the stock rail and the point rail is a source of electrical conduction problems especially after painting the rails. I have not observed this although others may have.
Joe
Echoing Joe, I use Atlas Customline Code 83 turnouts, both #4 and #6 and several curved turnouts, and I didn't add any jumpers in those spots (although I did wire the frogs). I have no issues when I run my layout in DCC. I have not (yet) painted my rails.
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
Joe and Matt, thank you for reporting your first-hand experience, makes life easier! I'm running 4 axle diesels and have not needed to wire the frogs for my Custom line 3, code 100, # 4's.
Joe How did you paint your point rails? Did you avoid paint where the paint rail meets the stock rail? I have not painted my track yet.
I've never experienced problems with the Atlas Customline turnouts, although it does seem possible for glue or paint to get between the hinge plate and stock and closure rails.
BUT - and this is a key point - The Atlas turnouts have jumpers from the frog rails to the closure rails. Any power fed to the rails from the frog end of the turnout will power the closure rails as well.
Everything here echoes my experience and knowledge of Atlas Turnouts.
All rails are live all the time in Atlas turnouts. I have never needed jumpers, nor have I known anyone that added them.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I used Pollyscale (railroad tie brown?) and applied it with a micro brush. I wasn't particularly careful about the hinges but I didn't flood them either. I tried not to get paint where the points and stock rail meet.
Kevin and AEP: thank you for your sharing your experiences. I am convinced now that the jumpers are not needed.
Joe: thank you for describing your painting technique. I enjoy reading about other modeler's techniques and successes.
When my old club was building a new layout, I was put in charge of 'tuning' all of the Atlas turnouts. That included adding jumpers between the stock and closure rails and between the closure rails and the point rails. We wanted to make the turnouts as reliable as possible over the long haul, and one issue that had been raised was the potential over time for poor electrical contact at the point rail pivot points and where the point rails contact the stock rails. The jumpers guaranteed good contact for the life of the layout.
We did a couple of other things too:
One was to power the frogs from the Tortoises. Atlas frogs are very difficult to solder to so we tapped the holes in the frogs for 0-80 brass machine screws and soldered the wire to the screws.
Another thing we did was to check that the frogs were sitting at exactly the same height as the surrounding rails. In some cases the frogs had partially popped out of the plastic tie castings. All we needed to do there was add a little thin CA under the frog and put a clamp over the frog until the CA had set. In other cases we found that the frogs were too high even when they were properly seated in the ties. That required a bit of filing. Note that before you start filing, check to see that the frog is seated first. If the frog is way too high I can almost guarantee that it has come loose. I used a block of steel to check the frogs. I slid it along the approach rails and the closure rails and if the steel bumped into the frog, the frog was out of place. Note that it is worth the time to check the frog heights after the turnouts have been installed as well. Rough handling or twisting the turnouts can pop the frogs loose.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Wow, great work Dave! Very thorough and very likely to provide rock solid performance! Excellent advice, particularly the section about evaluating frogs. I must admit though that your process makes turnout installation seem rather daunting... I'm having a knee replacement in early October and hope to have the track laid and wired before the procedure. I understand that kneeling on the repaired knee will be severely restricted for several months or more after surgery... Maybe I should convert my hobby to watching all the fine model RR's on YouTube and leave the work to the more skilled individuals! Thanks for jumping in the thread!
IDRickMaybe I should convert my hobby to watching all the fine model RR's on YouTube.
If you find any videos that are enjoyable, please let us know.
SeeYou190 IDRick Maybe I should convert my hobby to watching all the fine model RR's on YouTube. If you find any videos that are enjoyable, please let us know. -Kevin
IDRick Maybe I should convert my hobby to watching all the fine model RR's on YouTube.
LOL! Very good!
I wish the message system still worked on this forum... Kevin, is there a way that I could have an email or FB exchange with you?
IDRickLOL! Very good! I wish the message system still worked on this forum... Kevin, is there a way that I could have an email or FB exchange with you?
Click on the Stratton And Gillette logo.
My email address is in my public profile.
Excellent! Thanks Kevin, I will be sending you an email tomorrow with some questions.
IDRick I must admit though that your process makes turnout installation seem rather daunting...
Hi Rick,
Once the turnout has been 'tuned' the installation process is no different, except perhaps for feeding the frog power through the layout.
I had my right knee done in August. Fortunately everything is going fine but I certainly won't be kneeling any time soon.
Have you considered a mechanic's rolling stool? You won't be able to get down that low for a few months, but at least you won't have to kneel.
https://www.amazon.ca/Lanstics-Roller-Leather-Rolling-Fitness/dp/B09L7MV2WG/ref=sr_1_38?keywords=mechanic%2Bstool&qid=1694234137&sr=8-38&th=1
Hello, guess I'll be one to go against the grain. As the Wiring for DCC "suggests", I installed jumper wires on my turnouts. Here is a video on how I did it:
Hard to believe the video is nearly 8 years old. Speaking of "age". With the advent of better track/turnouts and keep alives, jumper wires may not be necessary. On the flip side, it's just like feeder wires, I've never had any issues after installing jumper wires and I've never heard anyone complain they have to many feeders and to much current flowing.
Thanks, Terry
Inspired by Addiction
See more on my YouTube Channel
Hi Terry,
Without wishing to offend, I'm going to suggest that the video only addresses part of what needs to be done to make the turnouts reliable over the long term. What the video does not address is the potential weakness of the electrical connection between the point rails and the closure rails.
Most turnouts connect their point rails to their closure rails through a set of tabs on the point rails that are bent inside of a hole in the closure rails. That connection is necessarily a bit loose to allow the point rails to move, and that lack of a firm contact can be fouled up by oxidization, paint, ballast or just plain dirt. Keep in mind that I am speaking of the long term. The problems with oxidization and dirt may not crop up for many years. I'm 69. I don't want to have to replace turnouts when I am 79.
Here is a picture showing how I installed jumpers between the point rails, the closure rails and the stock rails. This is a Peco turnout but I think the principle is the same for the Atlas turnouts. I could be wrong. Its been a while since I worked on the Atlas turnouts for my old club:
Dave Congratulations on your successful knee surgery! I did do one thing right on my layout and need to give a hat tip to York, a fellow MR member. He suggested running the power buss and feeder connections near the front of the layout. All my feeder to buss wire connections will be within 6 inches of the front. The layout is 44 inches high so I can sit on a chair and duck down to work on them. KISS, only wires are feeders and power buss, no others planned for now.
PennCentral Good video. I have used a similar process to solder jumpers to an Atlas turnout. Dave's suggestion is also a good one for optimal connectivity over time.
Hi Matt,
How did you wire the frogs as in attaching wire to frogs? What is power source and how to attach wire to power source? Wire guage?
Thanks.
Hi 1arfarf3,
To power the Atlas frogs on my club's layout I tapped the small hole in the frogs for a 0-80 thread and then inserted a a small brass bolt. Then I soldered a 16 gauge (IIRC) solid wire to the bolt. Kadee sells 0-80 tap and drill sets.
In order to get a good connection I didn't tap the hole completely. I left just enough material so that there was a slight interference when the bolt was screwed in. I would also suggest tinning the top of the bolt head before inserting it into the frog. If the bolt/frog gets too hot it will melt the surrounding plastic. Don't ask me how I know!
P.S.
This is where I get my small screws, nuts, bolts and washers from:
https://www.microfasteners.com/
I soldered a 16 gauge (IIRC) solid wire to the bolt. Kadee sells 0-80 tap and drill sets.
16 gauge is pretty hefty for that application. Maybe #22 would be more appropriate, of maybe smaller.
1arfarf3Hi Matt, How did you wire the frogs as in attaching wire to frogs? What is power source and how to attach wire to power source? Wire guage?
For hand-thrown turnouts, it's the same except there's no electrical switch. I use a hot willy. This is a screw driven into the plywood next to the points with a bent safety pin hinged on the screw and acting as a spring-loaded turnout throw. There are two track nails driven partway into the plywood nearby, such that you can rest the safety pin against one or the other of them and it will create tension on the points to direct traffic to the tangent or divergent track. That's the willy part. To make it hot, I run a wire from the screw to the frog, and one wire from each of the track nails to one of the stock rails. To throw the turnout you move the safety pin so that it is touching one nail or the other, and this makes a connection from the proper stock rail to the frog. The power source in this case is just the nearby feeders to the rails.
I use 20 or 22 AWG wire for both of these scenarios. If the above description of the hot willy is not clear, I will try to dig up an old thread where I know I described it before with photos.
Here's a hot willy on a long curved turnout. On this one, the yellow wire goes under the plywood base and comes up at the frog and is soldered there. The "safety" part of the safety pin is bent up to make a handle. In the photo, the safety pin is not only applying pressure to keep the points tightly closed, but it is making an electrical connection between the frog and the far rail. You can see the wire going from the further (rightmost) nail down into a hole, and it comes up on the other side of the track and is soldered to the far rail.
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maxmanI soldered a 16 gauge (IIRC) solid wire to the bolt. Kadee sells 0-80 tap and drill sets. 16 gauge is pretty hefty for that application. Maybe #22 would be more appropriate, of maybe smaller.
Hi Maxman,
You are right. The wire was much heavier than it needed to be. It was what I had on hand. One advantage to the heavier wire is that it doesn't tend to bend or get stuck when you are pushing it down through the subroadbed.