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2nd remote switch

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  • Member since
    January 2019
  • 158 posts
2nd remote switch
Posted by wolfman hal on Friday, May 19, 2023 2:49 PM

I was testing a new operation on my layout when I realized that two switches in the back of the layout are controlled at the panel. All switches are controled from there with LED lights to show direction.

There was an article in MR a while back showing how to install a REMOTE SWITCH on Tortorse controlled turnouts. 

Does anyone no the issue or another source for this installation?

 

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, May 19, 2023 4:54 PM

I'm having trouble on my end trying to understand your question but, as I interpret it you want to control one Tortoise from two locations and still have LED indiactors?

 Tortoise X2 by Edmund, on Flickr

This is how I do it. And since it resembles a household three-way light switch (they are not marked on-off like a single pole is) I mount my toggle switch sideways since there's no correlation to how the other toggle is set.

 Turnout-toggle-22 by Edmund, on Flickr

Hope that helps.

Ed

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Posted by wolfman hal on Friday, May 19, 2023 6:09 PM

Ed 

A couple of questions.

1. I don't need Led at the remote. They are already on the panel. It looks like you have just connected the two DPDT switches together. Am I correct?

2. It look like when I throw the  the remote switch it will put the panel switch in the wrong position. Am I correct?

Harold

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  • From: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted by BigDaddy on Friday, May 19, 2023 7:19 PM

I think Ed is going to say Yes and Yes

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by dehusman on Friday, May 19, 2023 7:37 PM

wolfman hal

1. I don't need Led at the remote. They are already on the panel. It looks like you have just connected the two DPDT switches together. Am I correct?

You have to connect the LED's in the panel the way they are in the diagram.

The DPDT's are connected together but HOW you connect them together is what is important.

2. It look like when I throw the  the remote switch it will put the panel switch in the wrong position. Am I correct?

No, read the description.  He mounted the toggle switches so they throw left and right because there is no "wrong" position.  The position of the toggle switches doesn't indicate anything and doesn't mean anything.  The positon of the toggle has no correlation to whether the switch is normal or reverse.  The LED indications are what indicates the position of the switch.  If the LED's show the switch is reverse and if you want it normal you throw the toggle.  The toggle could be to the left or to the right, doesn't matter.  You throw the toggle and the switch lines.  The LED's indicate the new alignment.  If you want to change it back, line either toggle, once again doesn't matter which way either toggle is lined, if you change the toggle positon of either toggle it changes the switch position.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, May 19, 2023 9:27 PM

Dave H sumed up the operation very succinctly. Yes

Nearly all of my toggle handles for powered (Tortoise) turnouts when in the down position I know the turnout is in the 'normal' route alignment. I can glance along the fascia and know that my routes are all good.

When it comes to turnouts controlled at two locations, as explained, the toggle handle has no relationship to the direction the turnout points are aligned, thus the LED(s) are important as indicator lights are on a dispatcher's panel that may be 500 miles away from the actual piece of controlled track.

I have three such 'dual control' locations on my layout. Two are on long passing sidings where I want to be able to control the distant turnout without having to physically walk around a layout peninsula to 'throw' the toggle.

Some layout operators go so far as to have the remote turnout switch controlled by a key switch, and even further by introducing a time-delay on the switch motor. This somewhat replicates what an actual crew might encounter out on the road.

This panel is at the other end of the siding I show in the photo above. The far right toggle is mounted horizontally. The red or yellow LEDs tell me what the alignment is. IF I throw that right toggle the LEDs on both panels will always be in agreement. IF I throw the remote toggle, likewise the yellow and red LEDs will exchange as appropriate.

 Hickam Siding by Edmund, on Flickr

It is difficult to tell from this photo (those LEDs really 'shine' in the camera lens!) but the toggle handle on the far right switch is mounted horizontally.

 Turnout-toggle-22w by Edmund, on Flickr

'DB' is the drawbridge indicator to let me know the bridge is down in addition to the absolute signals on the R-of-W.

Regards, Ed

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Posted by wolfman hal on Saturday, May 20, 2023 7:21 AM

OK. Let me make sure I have this correct.

The Remote switch will only be used during an op session by the operator working a long siding at the other end of the layout . This is why I said I do not need LED's for the remote.

Are you saying in my present situation with the LED's only (seperate Red and Green) on the panel that if I throw the switch at the remote location and change the turnout direction it will also change the LED's on the panel to the correct alignment. If this is correct then all I should have to do is to hook up the DPDT's 

Harold

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Posted by maxman on Saturday, May 20, 2023 12:58 PM

I think you have it correct.

But my question would be how do you prevent someone at the mail panel accidently throwing the turnout under the train?

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Posted by wolfman hal on Saturday, May 20, 2023 1:26 PM

You don't

But if I have an op I controll the turnouts. If I am alone I will be at one or the other.

Harold

  • Member since
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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, May 20, 2023 1:57 PM

wolfman hal
Are you saying in my present situation with the LED's only (seperate Red and Green) on the panel that if I throw the switch at the remote location and change the turnout direction it will also change the LED's on the panel to the correct alignment.

No.

Adding a second (or third or fourth) DPDT switch, wired as a polarity reverser, WILL change the position of the Tortoise but will NOT cause the LEDs at the originating panel to also switch. You are adding another reversing switch AFTER the LEDs see the polarity coming out of the first reversing switch but not the second (see diagram above).

The indicating LEDs no matter their location have to be wired AFTER the last reversing switch and BEFORE the Tortoise.

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by wolfman hal on Saturday, May 20, 2023 2:44 PM

Is that what you diagram is showing? Is the LED's on the left a Multi coler or a red and green like your photo?

Harold

 

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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, May 20, 2023 3:30 PM

wolfman hal
Is the LED's on the left a Multi coler or a red and green like your photo?

Doesn't matter. If you take two ordinary LEDs and place them 'back to back' they will act the same as a bi-color LED. The bi-color ones simply put them in the same, tiny package. I think my diagram says bi-color LED or two single?

wolfman hal
Is that what you diagram is showing?

No matter what you do the LED indicators have to 'read' the same polarity that the Tortoise is getting. If you wire your LEDs ahead of the last reversing switch they will NOT stay in synch with what the Tortoise is doing.

That is why I use a four conductor wire between the main panel, then to the remote panel, then 'through' all the LEDs as necessary and finally to the Tortoise.

I'll try to make up a better sketch than my hastily drawn one above if you think it will help you get a better idea.

 Tortoise-again by Edmund, on Flickr

Note: In many of my recent installations I'll use two bi-color LEDs (for yard trackage I found red/yellow LEDs and mains I use red/green) so that the 'model board' or track outline will show exactly what the line-up is.

Each LED in series will drop the voltage to the Tortoise, IIRC, .8 volts so there's a limit to how many you can have in series with the Tortoise.

Of course you can use the auxiliary contacts for any panel or signal indicators and not run this risk.

Familiarize yourself with the Circuitron instructions:

http://www.circuitron.com/index_files/ins/800-6000ins.pdf

Regards, Ed

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Posted by wolfman hal on Saturday, May 20, 2023 4:31 PM

Thank Ed

I will see what I have in the box tomorrow

Harold

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