I've used NCE since I first began using DCC back in about 2001. I've had their radio system since the beginning.
Other than an annoying delay in the cab response, I never had any real issues with their first generation radio system (RB01).
Looking to eliminate the response time, a couple weeks ago I installed the second generation radio system, the RB02. It has been a huge disappointment.
While the cab response delay is much better, I'm having much more of a problem with missed keystrokes on my throttles than I ever had with the RB01. For example, I'll hit the horn button, and way too often the system misses the button release, leaving the horn (or in my case, whistle) blasting on the loco until I hit the button again.
One really screwy thing is that the display on the master cab (the hammerhead throttle) won't update the displayed speed setting of the loco at times, even though the loco responds to the changed throttle setting. Strangely, this only happens when I'm standing within about three feet of the radio unit!
I've tried a couple different locations for the radio, but even when standing within ten feet of it it still misses far too many commands - probably around 15-20% of them. That's far too frequent.
NCE's radio system was the best one out there for years, but at this point I feel like I wasted nearly $175 on this "improved" radio system.
Anyone out there who uses the NCE radio system have any thoughts on how I can improve performance?
I've always really liked NCE's system, but if I can't get some significant improvement in radio performance, I may start looking at switching over to Digitrax (NOOOOO! ).
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
a metal plate can be mounted at the base of the antenna serving as a reflector to improve reception.
the club had problems. i borrowed an RF spectrum analyzer and we found interferences at ~916.5MHz (unlicensed ISM band) the NCE system operates at. (Digitrax operates at similar freq)
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Mark, have you contacted NCE about the issues you are experiencing? I bought my system in 2014 and have experienced basically none of the issues you are mentioning. The only one I've seen has been the horn sticking on, but honestly, in 8 years I could count on one hand the number of times that has happened. I would see what they have to say about it. Hopefully an easy fix.
Mike
Mark, the best advice that I can give you is to pick up the phone and call NCE. Tell the first guy who answers the nature of your problem. NCE Technical Support is outstanding. These guys know what they are talking about.
It may be that you need a "repeater" based upon the size of your layout. Maybe yes, maybe no. But that could be the problem based upon your description. A repeater strengthens the signal reaching the RB02 Radio Base Station.
Before you call, check the bottom of your RB02. If there is no sticker, it is Version 1.0. If there is a sticker, it will show whether it is Version 2.0 or Version 2.1.
I own a PH-Pro wireless system with an RB02 Radio Base Station. My layout is large and bends around a corner. But I do not have a repeater. I often wonder if I need one because I sometimes experience problems similar to what you are experiencing.
Let us know what NCE has to say.
Rich
Alton Junction
gregc (Digitrax operates at similar freq)
The old, retired, simplex Digitrax radios do, the current duplex radios operate at 2.4Ghz.
CSX RobertThe old, retired, simplex Digitrax radios do, the current duplex radios operate at 2.4Ghz.
looks like that's also one of the unlicensed ISM bands.
Hi Mark,
As others have recommended, I suggest giving NCE a call.
585-265-0230 for Technical Support
One thing that I would be sure to mention to them is that you made your own cables. I am not familiar with all the details, but I know that NCE has proprietary cables for some applications and they caution against using non NCE cables. I haven't a clue as to whether or not that could be part of your problem. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Here is another thought. Switch to wifi and get a wifi adaptor for your NCE system. Wifi throttles are gaining in popularity and many report better response. TCS now has two Wifi throttles availalbe, the UWT-100 has been out for a couple years and is a little smaller than the NCE Hammer head (ergonomics) and has a similar thumb wheel, and the UWT-50 (the smaller brother) will be shipping out to customers very soon.
Of course smart phones can be used via wifi with Engine Driver software.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761Here is another thought. Switch to wifi and get a wifi adaptor for your NCE system
riogrande5761smart phones can be used via wifi with Engine Driver software.
We did this at my old club and the guys loved it! They were running trains on their iphones and tablets in less than 1/2 hr.
Mark.
Antenna placement and orientation is important for reliable and consistent radio operations. I've learned a lot about antennas (very expensively) from my RC helicopters and drones. I don't know what type of antenna NCE uses but something as simple as tipping the reciever antenna horizontal could solve the issues you are having.
Mr. Bruce Simpson of RC model reviews on YouTube has several videos on antennas. How they work, what happens when this or that happens and what to do to fix it. He explains it in a way that's easy to understand for us non electrical engineer types.
Pete.
You might get a wider NCE audience if you posted this in the NCE Groups.io
Generally a nice group, although some get wacked out if you ask an non NCE MR question.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I have my receiver under the layout and I did a test where I went to the far end of the house which was 90 ft away and everything still worked perfectly. I had set up a Wyse camera to look and listen.
The only time I have the issues you describe is when the batteries are getting low and I have learned to recognize the symptoms. This happened last week and I tested the batteries and they were down to 1.25 volts when they started acting up.
I have also heard that using rechargeable batteries can be an issue as the quality and longevity varies so much in these.
I got my system in 2007 as the kids were demanding the trains get rolling.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Thanks for the replies, everyone!
I talked to Matt at NCE today, and he had a few suggestions. Apparently being too close to the base station can be a problem. The unit is within ten feet of where I'm usually standing when running the yard, so I'll try moving it to the far end of the room for now. He also suggeted moving it up high, to get it away from the power buss and track, which can generate enough RFI to cause issues.
We'll see if those things help.
The wifi option is very intriguing as well...
PruittHe also suggeted moving it up high, to get it away from the power buss and track, which can generate enough RFI to cause issues.
I wonder if the fact mine is under the layout with foam and wood acting as a shield is why I have no issues?
Hello All,
PruittI talked to Matt at NCE today, and he had a few suggestions.
Within the last 6-months, I upgraded my pike from the Bachmann Dynamis DCC system to the NCE Wireless Power Pro DCC system.
I've had email threads with Mike at NCE, and they are great!
Please excuse me if these points have already been covered in your phone conversation with Matt at NCE.
One suggestion that comes from the NCE Cab Wireless Supplement 1.5 Manual is to mount the RB02 unit from the ceiling (overhead) in the center of the pike or space, with the antenna pointing down.
Apparently, the antenna radiation pattern from the RB02 is a "Torus" (donut) shape; pg. 3, NCE Cab Wireless Supplement 1.5.
By mounting the RB02 in this way apparently, the signal strength from the cab to the antenna is enhanced.
You didn't mention in any of your posts if you are running the cable from the antenna directly to the command/power booster or if you are using a UTP between the two?
If you do have a UTP installed between the antenna and the command/power booster have you tried connecting the Power Cab to the command/power booster with a cable through the UTP bypassing the RB02?
Also, the two (2) rear RJ-12 connectors on the UTP are marked "Command Station" side versus the "More UTP panels" side.
Doubble check that the RB02 is plugged into the "More UTP panels" side and not to the "Command Station" side.
Again, if any of my thoughts/suggestions have been previously covered please disregard them.
Please keep us informed on your progress and the successful changes you made.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
jjdamnit Hello All, Pruitt I talked to Matt at NCE today, and he had a few suggestions. Within the last 6-months, I upgraded my pike from the Bachmann Dynamis DCC system to the NCE Wireless Power Pro DCC system. I've had email threads with Mike at NCE and they are great! Please excuse me if these points have already been covered in your phone conversation with Matt at NCE. One suggestion that comes from the NCE Cab Wireless Supplement 1.5 Manual is to mount the RB02 unit from the ceiling (overhead) in the center of the pike or space, with the antenna pointing down. Apparently, the antenna radiation pattern from the RB02 is a "Torus" (donut) shape; pg. 3, NCE Cab Wireless Supplement 1.5. By mounting the RB02 in this way apparently, the signal strength from the cab to the antenna is enhanced. You didn't mention in any of your posts if you are running the cable from the antenna directly to the command/power booster or if you are using a UTP between the two? If you do have a UTP installed between the antenna and the command/power booster have you tried connecting the Power Cab to the command/power booster with a cable through the UTP bypassing the RB02? Also, the two (2) rear RJ-12 connectors on the UTP are marked "Command Station" side versus the "More UTP panels" side. Doubble check that the RB02 is plugged into the "More UTP panels" side and not to the "Command Station" side. Again, if any of my thoughts/suggestions have been previously covered please disregard them. Please keep us informed on your progress and the successful changes you made. Hope this helps.
Pruitt I talked to Matt at NCE today, and he had a few suggestions.
I've had email threads with Mike at NCE and they are great!
It reminds me that when I had similar problems with the RB02 wireless base station sitting on the layout, I moved it above the layout, hung upside down from a floor joist and performance immediately improved.
Matt, at NCE, is my current go-to guy. Larry, his predecessor, was outstanding as well.
Did you ever get this problem sorted out to your satisfaction?
I have NCE wireless setup I bought a number of years ago to install on my future layout. Well that time has arrived, but it has been suggested that I upgrade to a RB02 vs my older RBT-01. My total layout is insde a 12x16 shed, so not that big.
Do I really need to do this sort of upgrade??
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
Not really, no.
I followed all the suggestions from NCE, and there are still a few dead spots in the basement, and everywhere there is the occasional missed keystroke (often enough to be a big annoyance).
Instead of chasing this problem around in circles, I purchased a WifiTrax WFD-31 and installed it. Instant problem-free wifi train control! It's a direct replacement for a UTP, retaining all of that unit's functionality while adding wifi. The NCE radio still works (as well as it ever did), and tethered cabs work also. I had an op session in June where all three modes were being used - wifi, tethered and radio cabs, and it was all seamless.You might look into that. The cost is about the same as the RB02, but you get solid performance with NO missed keystrokes. I'll be buying at least one of the TCS UWT-50's to use.
I made a video on how I installed and use the WFD-31:
Mark P: Great video - thanks!
Excellent video, Mark. Thanks for your hard work.
Pruitt I followed all the suggestions from NCE, and there are still a few dead spots in the basement, and everywhere there is the occasional missed keystroke (often enough to be a big annoyance). Instead of chasing this problem around in circles, I purchased a WifiTrax WFD-31 and installed it. Instant problem-free wifi train control! It's a direct replacement for a UTP, retaining all of that unit's functionality while adding wifi. The NCE radio still works (as well as it ever did), and tethered cabs work also. I had an op session in June where all three modes were being used - wifi, tethered and radio cabs, and it was all seamless.You might look into that. The cost is about the same as the RB02, but you get solid performance with NO missed keystrokes.
Instead of chasing this problem around in circles, I purchased a WifiTrax WFD-31 and installed it. Instant problem-free wifi train control! It's a direct replacement for a UTP, retaining all of that unit's functionality while adding wifi. The NCE radio still works (as well as it ever did), and tethered cabs work also. I had an op session in June where all three modes were being used - wifi, tethered and radio cabs, and it was all seamless.You might look into that. The cost is about the same as the RB02, but you get solid performance with NO missed keystrokes.
Thanks guys!
I just received a TCS UWT-50e the other day, and it works great with my WFD-31. Much better than using my phone, and the connection is rock solid all over the basement (and probably upstairs and maybe even next door, too)!