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No movement: Kato (176-9102, 176-9104) and Digitrax (DN163K0D)

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No movement: Kato (176-9102, 176-9104) and Digitrax (DN163K0D)
Posted by chipset35 on Saturday, January 8, 2022 8:40 AM
All of my Kato/Digitrax DCC decoder equipped engines work fine with my Digitrax #ZEPE Zephyr Express Starter Set.
Unfortunatley, the 2 new Metra KATO engines (176-9102, 176-9104), I just received and installed with a Digitrax (DN163K0D)in each, do not move in forward or reverse, despite being able to turn the head lights on and off and both the front and rear lights going on and off depending if I am in forward or reverse.
Kind of odd, all the lights respond to DCC commands, but the engines wont move via DCC.
All of my other KATO/Digitrax engines work fine on the same track.
Both engine/decoders can be read by DCC and are using default CV06.
This is my 4th time installing this decoder on Kato engines, so I cant figure out what I did wrong.
I will post some pictures after my coffee kicks in.
Can you help me figure this out?
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Posted by tstage on Saturday, January 8, 2022 9:05 AM

I presume the Kato locomotives are N-scale? A few questions for you...

  • Did you check to see if the motor wires (orange & gray) are making good contact with the correct contact pads of the decoder?
  • Are they soldered or are you using clips?  I would solder them to ensure good continuity
  • Is the bottom side of the decoder properly insulated from the chassis?

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by woodone on Saturday, January 8, 2022 9:13 AM

Using default #6?  The normal default is address #3. Try that. 
lights work, and follow the direction you set.  Make sure you have the Kapton tape in place at the strips, and you have a good motor connection to the motor tabs from the decoder. I solder my motor to decoder connections.

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Posted by chipset35 on Saturday, January 8, 2022 10:02 AM

The decoder addresses are 60 and 42. The o6 is a CV value, and is a default CV value not to be confused with a decoder address. Here are some before and after photos, it looked like in the first set there was a tiny gap between the contact strips and the board contacts, as well as not being aligned to make full contact. In the 2nd set I made sure there was contact and the alignments were better. Still does the same thing except, on engine 60 it asked me to steal the 60 address, which is odd as its only been used on that engine. On engine 42, it did not have lights after my adjustments, but after I moved it a little back and forth on track they lit up fine and stayed that way.

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Posted by chipset35 on Saturday, January 8, 2022 10:03 AM

Yep, N Scale

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, January 8, 2022 10:19 AM

I would perform a factory reset on each decoder to make sure that they are working properly on default address "3".  If the motors are not responding on address "3" for either one but your lights do then you know that the motor board contacts on the decoder are not making good contact with the contact strips of the locomotive.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by woodone on Saturday, January 8, 2022 10:25 AM

OK, 6 is a CV value, to what?   Where you have installed the gray plastic clip that holds the motor contacts to the decoder, I would solder these contacts. I have seen many no run installs because this connection is not good. (solder them). Just tin them you do not need a big glob of solder here so the clip will still be able to be inserted.

after this I would do a decoder reset, and try running with the default address of 3.

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Posted by chipset35 on Saturday, January 8, 2022 11:24 AM

ok, will do a factory reset.

BTW, swapped back the original DC boards that are non DCC and DC works fine.

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Posted by chipset35 on Saturday, January 8, 2022 11:43 AM

Tried a factory reset, set decoder to 03,  and it did not fix the issue.

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Posted by woodone on Saturday, January 8, 2022 1:38 PM

If you did a factory reset you need not set an address. It will default to the default #3 on its own. Did you try soldering the motor tabs to the decoder?  I have done a bunch of installs on this type of locomotive, and also a bunch from people who had done there own and found about  99% of the time the decoder was not making contact with motor tabs- solder them and I think your problems will be solved.

 

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Posted by chipset35 on Saturday, January 8, 2022 3:57 PM

Only issue with soldering, is if I do that and it stil dont work, I wont be able to revert back to DC.

Also, when you do a read on the programming track its supposed to beep 4 times and flash its lights 4 times?

One thing you mentioned, when I do the factory reset, its supposed to go to address 3 on its own. What should the CV be? Even though the decoder defaults to 03, should the CV default to 0?

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, January 8, 2022 4:03 PM

chipset35
Only issue with soldering, is if I do that and it stil dont work, I wont be able to revert back to DC.

If reading CV1 on a new or reset decoder, the value should be "3"; not "0".

chipset35
One thing you mentioned, when I do the factory reset, its supposed to go to address 3 on its own. What should the CV be? Even though the decoder defaults to 03, should the CV default to 0?

Re-read woodone's earlier post.  He stated that you only need to "tin" the soldering pad with a small amount of solder THEN press the clip onto the pad.  This will increase the height of the pad slightly and allow a tighter connection with the clip.  (If the connection is loose then your decoder will not make good contact with the motor and you'll get spotty results.)  Tinning the pad will allow you to remove clips if that doesn't address the issue.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by woodone on Saturday, January 8, 2022 4:39 PM

OK, you have reservations about soldering the motor tab to the decoder.  Fear not, you can do this and still service the loco should need be. When I say tin, that means just get enough solder on the decoder it shines- NOW tin the motor tabs on both sides of the tab- then fold the motor tab down to the decoder pad. With a tooth pick hold the motor tab to the decoder pad. Then just touch the back side of the motor tab. It will only take a second or two- remove the soldering tip but still hold the tab down to the decoder for a second or two- you are done- if you should have to remove- take a sharp pointed knife and wedge it under the motor tab strip- hit with a soldering tip and the tab will pop up unsoldered.

 

,

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Posted by chipset35 on Saturday, January 8, 2022 10:13 PM

Ok, I am going to try soldering tomorrow.

I am not the best soldered, but tinning should be easier.

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Posted by woodone on Sunday, January 9, 2022 8:24 AM

The trick to soldering--small diameter solder---0.015--hot tip----FLUX.

MOST people try to solder with the soldering iron tempeture too low.

a hot tip will flow the solder quick. 

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Posted by chipset35 on Monday, January 10, 2022 7:22 AM

Nothing works, I gave up and sent them back under warranty.

They would not even work in other locos that already have that same decoder. I installed them all so I know what I am doing.

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