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Frog juicer--why?

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  • Member since
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  • From: lavale, md
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Posted by gregc on Tuesday, July 13, 2021 6:44 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
But appearance is subjective. For me, setting aside all issues of electrical requirements, the Caboose Industries ground throw has never been acceptable from an appearance standpoint.

i doubt tortoise machines mounted on top of the layout would be acceptable to you either. 

the above is two staging loops (boston & harford).  below show both levels, newspapers cover the lower staging.  panel is for the lower staging (new york)

operation is for a specific time (day), with specific trains, locos, sets of passengers cars and mix of freight cars from specific RRs.   (an aspect of MRing i'm just learning about)

more, if interested

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, July 13, 2021 6:56 PM

I was refering to the scenic part of the layout.

In a hidden staging yard they might be, assuming space was not an issue.

As it turns out, my hidden staging will require them to be under the trackage simply from a space standpoint.

I am more than familiar with detailed recreations of exact prototype schedules for ops sessions, but it is an ulta detailed aspect of the hobby that does not fit my interests.

My new layout makes no effort to replicate actual places or times, only to capture the "spirit" of this region as it might have been in the early fall of 1954.

Sheldon 

    

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Posted by gregc on Tuesday, July 13, 2021 7:23 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
I was refering to the scenic part of the layout.

not all layouts look like the ones in magazines.    i'm seeing more layouts that are more focused on operability than looks and using techniques i haven't seen described in magazines or these forums.

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by rrebell on Tuesday, July 13, 2021 7:27 PM

My layout is ending up being a stylised verson of real life, just don't have the skill to make it photo real though I try. Speaking of which I just learned my Emma is too big, John used a smaller one but the same look.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, July 13, 2021 7:49 PM

gregc

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
I was refering to the scenic part of the layout.

 

not all layouts look like the ones in magazines.    i'm seeing more layouts that are more focused on operability than looks and using techniques i haven't seen described in magazines or these forums.

 

We have had this discussion partly before. I have seen hundreds of layouts in person, many equally as impressive as those in the press. I have seen a few of the more well know layouts that have appeared in the press. And, I was a member of a club that appeared in MR many times back in the day.

I get that different people have different interests and goals in the hobby that the model press does not cover at all or evenly.

My personal interests represent a mix of the serious and the casual, a blend not always understood by others.

As much as I have an interest in operation, and model building, and prototype history, my primary goal is the overall visual and functional presentation of the layout as a whole.

That's why close coupling and working diaphragms are more important than the accuracy of the models they are on.

That's why a little "blob" of a slide switch is an acceptable stand in for switch stand that is generally viewed from three feet away by those not operating trains .

That's why the signal system does not need to display every detailed aspect, only needing to guide operators and look representitive.

That's why onboard sound is not needed because with 20 locomotives moving 7-8 trains all at the same time the din would be unbearable.

That's why not every car needs to be a museum piece, but we don't mind that some are........

This hobby is a lot of different things to a lot of different kinds of people.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 6:51 AM

7j43k
 
 
rrebell

depends on the contacts. I use ground throws that don't have contacts except for unreliable ones on some. 

 

Yeah, I can see that.  So far, for ground throws I've used separate micro-switches.  But:  if ya don't have reliable contact switching (or none at all), I can see using the thing.

Ed 

For me powering the frogs is a cost vs. time issue on my dcc layout.  I can afford some hex frog juicers and can wire them faster than I would be able to rig a microswitch do-dad.  Presently I have 5 hex frog juicers and estimate I need a couple more for the planned turnouts.

Now if I were retired and on a fixed income, the microswitch solution would be more attractive. 

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 9:11 AM

riogrande5761
I can afford some hex frog juicers and can wire them faster than I would be able to rig a microswitch do-dad.

The ease of installing frog-juicers is very appealing.

For the life of me I do not understand why they won't work with DC. If they just detect the short super-quick and flip polarity automatically, why are they DCC only?

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by rrebell on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 10:37 AM

SeeYou190

 

 
riogrande5761
I can afford some hex frog juicers and can wire them faster than I would be able to rig a microswitch do-dad.

 

The ease of installing frog-juicers is very appealing.

For the life of me I do not understand why they won't work with DC. If they just detect the short super-quick and flip polarity automatically, why are they DCC only?

-Kevin

 

Good question. 

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Posted by CSX Robert on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 10:47 AM

SeeYou190
For the life of me I do not understand why they won't work with DC. If they just detect the short super-quick and flip polarity automatically, why are they DCC only?

I suspect at least part of the issue is the trip current - according to the website it's 1.7 amps and apparently not adjustable.  Many DC power packs won't supply that much and ones that can might not at reduced throttle settings.  Remember, with DCC there is full power on the rails at all times, so you know, for example, with a 2 amp system with adequate wiring a short is going to draw close to 2 amps.  If they back off on the current requirement to trip, then they would likely have issues with some higher powered DC systems and higher current drawing locomotives.

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Posted by gregc on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 11:37 AM

at least one technique for detecting the short is to use the voltage across a low Ohm value, 0.22 resistor (R6 and R10) when there is excessive current to bias (turn on) a transistor triggering a reverser or circuit breaker .   such a value resistor requires ~3A (0.7V / 0.22)

both the track voltage needs to be high enough and the current large enough to cause such a circuit to work.  i believe trip current can be adjusted by jumpering additional resistors either in series or parallel.   lower voltage DC may no be sufficient.

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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