tstage RR_Mel Actually I didn’t ding one I dropped it and it will never be seen again. Mel, Wrap some packing tape - sticky-side out - around your four "non-thumb" fingers. Dab the area lightly where you think the LED might be and you should be able to find it in no time... Tom
RR_Mel Actually I didn’t ding one I dropped it and it will never be seen again.
Mel,
Wrap some packing tape - sticky-side out - around your four "non-thumb" fingers. Dab the area lightly where you think the LED might be and you should be able to find it in no time...
Tom
TomThat would work if I had a clean environment and where Mel is working clean isn’t in my vocabulary. My wife hits my hobby room with the vacuum a couple of times per week and the floor is clean for about 10 minutes after she leaves.I can find larger items like couplers but anything as small as a SMD part is a goner.
Now if it had wires and couple of milli amps I could find it. This is a 0402 warm white LED with wires and go juice.
Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Here's an update an a couple more questions. I received the warm white wired LEDs yesterday, and the Ngineering lampshades today. I'm about ready to try putting together the first lampshades / LEDs.
Question 1: What's the best way to drill out a hole in the center of the lampshades? (yeah, I know. With a drill!) They're shaped so that the drill should find the center from the inside, but what's the best way to hold the shade while drilling? I figured I could use a larger drill to make a dimple in a scrap piece of wood, but how to hold the lampshade so it doesn't just spin when I drill?
Question 2: The LEDs list a voltage range of 3.0-3.2. Doesn't list amperage. I can certainly hook up a 3V wall wart, but don't I need to limit the current?
Sorry if these are dumb questions. Haven't worked much with LEDs.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
I would use an existing power source form your layout and experiment with resistors for the brightness I wanted. I use a 12 volt switching power supply for all of my accessories. To get specific voltages such as 5 volts for my Arduinos I use DC to DC buck converters, 12 volts in and adjust the output to the wanted voltage.I think you will find the LEDs are much brighter than needed and operating them at very low current. Most of my SMD LEDs are operating at 1ma to 2ma.This truck has 12 0402 LEDs and 1 1206 (cab roof ambers on fiber), total current is less than 3ma at 12 volts.The Rolls draws 1.2ma, 5 0402 LEDs.
EDIT:
This is a warm white 0402 LED running at 900ųa (.9ma), very bright.
This is the headlights on another Kenworth tractor.
Four 0402 Warm White LED headlights.
Mel Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Aging is not for wimps.
PruittQuestion 1: What's the best way to drill out a hole in the center of the lampshades?
https://www.ngineering.com/hole_punch.htm
Good Luck, Ed
Duh! Thanks, Ed! I should have checked their website first (worst part is I thought about it, then didn't ).
Thanks Mel. I thought LEDs were more current driven than voltage. So I guess the 12V won't hurt them at a low enough amperage. I have a resistance decade box I picked up when converting my roundhouse LEDs from battery to wall wart. That would work, I'm sure. I'll start at about 1Mohm and work my way down.
Thanks!
Pruitt What's the best way to drill out a hole in the center of the lampshades?
What's the best way to drill out a hole in the center of the lampshades?
I just easily pushed a pin through to make the hole. I pinned them to a piece of cork roadbed and painted them while I was at it.
White on the inside.
Then I flipped them and hit them with the CP green.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Thanks, Brent! That's very useful! Did you spray or brush paint them? If sprayed, how did you keep them from blowing away?
Pruitt Thanks, Brent! That's very useful! Did you spray or brush paint them? If sprayed, how did you keep them from blowing away?
Mark, I have brushed some and sprayed some. Either way, they are pinned to the piece of cork roadbed and are held well enough to be painted.
I used a finer sewing needle for the escutcheons. Don't even try to attach them to the shades before threading the wire. Thread the wire through the shade, then the escutcheon. Hang the light and let gravity make the shade slide down onto the LED and then the escutcheon will slide down onto the shade. If need be, you can take a very fine paintbrush and use a dab more paint to glue the escutcheon to the shade at that point.
Another option is to not use an escutcheon and use a dab of paint to plug the hole in the top of the shade, again the paint is enough to hold everything in place once dried. You can't even tell the escutcheon is not there depending on where the light is hung.
Look at the prototype, when those shades were used inside, more often than not there was no escutcheon used as weather penetration was not a factor. In old photos, you can clearly see light leakage out the top through the hole in the shade.
The first few will seem very finicky indeed and you will break some wire on the first few. You will soon learn how to handle them and things will speed up and go smoothly. I whipped up a ton of them the last time and likely have more than I'll ever use now, it did not take long.
The first few I had about three or four inches of wire on them, but as I started to install them on various projects I left six to twelve inches of wire and that made things much easier. I would suggest having a lead long enough to reach under the layout, you can cut some off if need be but adding wire is a pain.
I used nail clippers to cut the wire, they were perfect for the job. Also, I learned I did not have to burn off the insulation as that happened when soldering the wire almost without fail, if it didn't one more touch with the iron did the job.
If using the metal tube you need to bend the tube after the wire has been threaded.
1. Solder LED to wire.
2.Thread on shade.
3.Thread on escutcheon.
4. Thread on pipe.
5. Bend pipe.
6. Gently pull wire to pull all the pieces together or let gravity take care of it if possible.
7. A dab more paint will glue the works together.
I found that when using pipe, after it was bent and you pulled the bits together, they were held in place and did not slide around because the bent pipe kept the wire from sliding.
If the bits do not stay together while the paint/glue dries put a clothes peg on the wire to hold them tight.
Good luck.
This rather large light was a C.P. light used in railyards.
My version with a drilled-out bead with a 602 in it.
PruittThe LEDs list a voltage range of 3.0-3.2. Doesn't list amperage. I can certainly hook up a 3V wall wart, but don't I need to limit the current? Sorry if these are dumb questions. Haven't worked much with LEDs.
I use these, about $2.00 apiece from China. I ordered ten last time one failed but the rest have been fine. I can control the brightness with them to a certain extent.
This is an old ad from this side of the big pond. Check China, they may not be much more here, don't know.
A-a-a-nd back to wiring those 0402 LEDs...
I finally got all the tools I need, the wire, the solder, etc. to create 0402 "incandescent" fixtures over the doors of Rocky Mountain Drilling. Thanks very much for those who recommended Ngineering - they ertainly have everything I needed - almost.
Forming their .018 tubing into a gooseneck lamp conduit and attaching a shade was pathetically easy. The first one came out looking fine (I'll post pictures when I get the rest of it to work out).
Soldering #38 magnet wire to those 0402 LEDs is anything but easy. The first one was a dismal failure. I got one wire attached, but it came off and the LED disappeared when I started working on the second wire.
I can't get the first wire to even attach to the second LED. I tried several times. these things are so darned TINY! Even with my 5X Optivisor AND a magnifying glass I can't see well enough to do the job. I'm thinking I need one of those very large magnifiers with the light around it to do the job - with about 20X magnification for these old eyes.
In any case, it's going to take several attempts to get the hang of attaching these wires. I may pull out what little hair I have left before I get there.
Anybody know where I can get pre-wired LEDs with #38 wire? What I find on EBAY doesn't specify wire diameter, and from what I've seen the aire is much thicker, meaning it won'g go through the .018 dia. tubing.
Mark,
What I've found handy is holding the SMD LED steady when soldering wire to them and I use a good set of locking tweezers to do that:
Tin the contacts of the LEDs and stripped wire first THEN solder them to one another. (A wee smidgen of rosin flux paste helps, too.) With this method I generally don't have any problem soldering 34 AWG magnet wire to 0402 or 0603s.
34 AWG magnet wire has an OD of 0.007" so you should have no problem getting that through the 0.018" tubing. And it's coated so the insulation is extremely thin. To strip the insulation just heat a blob of solder on the tip of a 700oF soldering iron and move the magnet wire in and out of the molten solder. The heat will both strip and tin the wire all at the same time. You can pick up 20' of 34 AWG magnet wire from Litchfield Station for $2.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Thanks for the advice, Tom!
These doggone things are so TINY!
I went to Hobby Lobby and bought a cheapie ($20) Ottlight. You can see the base of it in the photo below. It has 2X magnification, plus a small 5X spot magnifier. Combined with my 2.5X Optivisor, I can almost see what I'm doing. I might try to buy the 3.5X Optivisor lenses and see if that helps. But the Ottlight did help - a lot.
But also in the photo below, you can see that I was successful! I soldered leads I could barely see onto pads I could almost see, and miracle of miracles, it works! I am encouraged!
The thing is probbly more fragile than a robin's egg, and I doubt it'll survive being threaded into the gooseneck, but getting only the second LED I messed with (the first is mimicking a grain of dust on the floor somewhere) to light is a major victory. Now I just need to figure out what resistor will provide the right amount of light. I'm using a decade box for that.
Excellent! - Glad to hear you're making progress, Mark.
FWIW, in regards to resistors and SMD LEDs: I ended up using MUCH larger values for the 0603 LEDs that I installed in my brass locomotive headlamps than I expected. 10K, in fact. I think because the SMD LEDs are SO tiny that the concentration of the light makes them look brighter than a 3mm LED.
Here's what a 0603 LED looks like with a 10K resistor:
It's plenty bright but not overpowering. With only a 1K resistor?...it was absolutely blinding.
For lighting with lampshades, it may take some experimenting to see what resistance works best. And, maybe...you have different intensities in different locations for different lighting needs - e.g. indoor lighting vs outdoor lighting. You'll best be able to determine that through experimentaton. And switching out resistors is a lot easier than switching out lights.
Oh, and I just remembered: Double-stick tape is another handy method of holding those tiny SMD LEDs in place while soldering to them. After your done just pry them up carefully with a pair of small tweezers.
I just ordered a bunch of 0603 LEDs. The 0402 is about the scale size of a 60 watt bulb, which is probably too small for most of my needs. The 0603 is roughly the size of the old large base incadescents that were used for a lot of exterior commercial lighting.
I miscalculated on the scale sizes before - I thought the 0402 was about 6 scale inches long, but it's only about 3 1/2" long. Dummy me. But I'll be able to use the 0402s elsewhere, I'm sure.
(Plus the 0603 should be a bit easier to wire)
Hey Tom,
What sort of magnification setup do you use to be able to solder those tiny components? Are you an eagle-eyed phenom, or...?
How many power magnification do you use to be able to see everything? If you could be as specific as possible, I'd sure like to know what you use. Even with a 2X magnifying lamp and 2.5X Optivisor on top of that, I still can't see the LED solder pads clearly.
Although I wear trifocals, my sight is still pretty decent @ 62. I just use a Mascot 2.5x "optivisor" (leather headband) over atop of my glasses with a good task light. The task light helps to reflect the shiny soldering pad.
I used to have 20/15 vision until my early 40s. Miss those days.
As mentioned, I like to use a smidgen of rosin flux paste on the soldering pad of the SMD LED. And once I've attached the wires to the LED, I clean up any flux residue with 99% isopropyl alcohol and a cotton swab. If the solder joint is nice & shiny, it should hold well mechanically, as well electrically.
The above are wires soldered to two 1206s that have been glued & soldered together in parallel. This was used to illuminte the open firebox of my brass 2-6-6-2 Mallet to replicate firebox flicker.
PruittThe thing is probbly more fragile than a robin's egg, and I doubt it'll survive being threaded into the gooseneck
I was quite surprised at how robust those little wires are. I have broken a couple when I caught a finger on them, but it was quite a tug that broke them.
I use this Array Wizard to help get started on choosing a resistor.
http://www.hebeiltd.com.cn/calculator/v5/led.php
tstageAlthough I wear trifocals, my sight is still pretty decent @ 62. I just use a Mascot 2.5x "optivisor" (leather headband) over atop of my glasses with a good task light. The task light helps to reflect the shiny soldering pad. Tom
I just picked up a 2.25X magnifying lamp, and it helps a lot. The lens is surrounded by LEDs that can be adjusted in intensity for just the right light level (full bright looks good to me). I have a 2.5X Optivisor, and between the two I'll get 5.625X magnification. I also ordered a 3.5X Optivisor lens, which will give me 7.875X combined with the lamp. I think that will do.
Brent,
That Array Wizard looks pretty useful - thanks! I've bookmarked it.
PruittYou've got better eyes than me, Tom! And I'll bet you have pretty steady hands, too (mine are also pretty steady, so at least that isn't an issue).
I've been a technician for over 30 years and used to working under a microscope so - yes, I have pretty steady hands, although not quite as steady as they used to be. Like anything getting older, you learn to adapt to your limitations.
The extra magnification will definitely help, along with the strong task light. I picked up one of thos 2x LED magnification lamps at a train show a few years back. I don't use the magnification window much at all but the lighting is great for illuminating the area that I'm working on.
Pruitt Hey Tom, What sort of magnification setup do you use to be able to solder those tiny components? Are you an eagle-eyed phenom, or...? How many power magnification do you use to be able to see everything? If you could be as specific as possible, I'd sure like to know what you use. Even with a 2X magnifying lamp and 2.5X Optivisor on top of that, I still can't see the LED solder pads clearly.
I use X2 and X3 flip down magnifiers on regular reading glasses to solder wires to the 603 and 402 LEDs.https://www.ebay.com/itm/293142181880?hash=item4440a2b7f8:g:uLIAAOSwm2NdHcaiI made a three clip tool to hold a 402 LED in the center and the red and green wires on the outside.
This tool really makes it easy to solder the itty-bitty LEDs. I use #46 Litz wire. For me it was harder to hold the wires in place than hold the LEDs. The two outside clips holding the wires work great even for Shaky Hands Mel.Mel Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Aging is not for wimps.
Sorta like Mel's setup, I got one of these cheapy helping hands devices that clamp to a desktop:
SMD-clip1 by Edmund, on Flickr
I made the holders using #12 solid copper wire stripped from romex. Stiff but flexible.
SMD-clip by Edmund, on Flickr
Most of the SMD LEDs I buy are pre-wired but there are times when I want something modified and use the flattened, thoothless alligator clips for holding the parts.
https://www.amazon.com/Toothless-Alligator-Copper-Plated-Microscopic/dp/B012RHZJWC/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=flat+alligator+clip&qid=1628373519&s=hi&sr=1-3
There are dozens of designs of these "helping hands" things but this one is small and the "tooling" is easily changed:
https://www.amazon.com/ProsKit-902-227-Octopus-Helping-Hands/dp/B003WNY83M/ref=sr_1_76?dchild=1&keywords=helping+hand&qid=1628373633&s=hi&sr=1-76
PruittAnybody know where I can get pre-wired LEDs with #38 wire? What I find on EBAY doesn't specify wire diameter, and from what I've seen the aire is much thicker, meaning it won't go through the .018 dia. tubing.
Hi Mark,
These 0603 LEDs come with lacquer coated magnet wire:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/221513993078?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3393434b76:g:hQAAAOSw4aZbBL3u&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSvtkx670Z0mbyfWqmxLFLYeNRd2VrcihdMo50I7%252B3Yx%252BoU9QyR6XeTP46P%252Fke1Y2rXgjIFMO%252FUydZshN62XtsDqda9dY7eN01d7jS4nFf9z4O3ztHLZthqALOWr9WrnVs2yGniGaY8QLkMvXLVCphqzdqh14sKOGH0RpN1kWv%252Fy4xnFc0gkTFB%252Ff%252BTWlb0D1HzKYRn5puv7FX7LIDrSwusr1iTLLG%252F0BLvEWXGurFZdyYzwDFEq1f1uPLtUyixEMYujirLNPLBrg5yI3Jgyo8kHyXUyUy9q9lActn93GpD3EJO%252FR9FgB8XxvLf4dcVOJ15iGf3%252FSQI2rmpBTLMygES8z1fraR%252BK2z4bq10yVX5vJP3ksy76MkzrJaAABfhJ6fRk8tDMpLM1Kr9gjriM0OBUlGD5Cu9d%252FNzqaJM3Ym%252BJOFnBIWm7ilVRpKHndJWNu0G6U0VwfS0yfLk38GGJ6n4X15il0B90cb4I5RoVmz3JvusfWiJZGLeg6cb%252F%252BVjPMRZqUIhi%252BIacQZxbEeR42fn9pV65r7264ob11xvzSg%252F8u3eM8OBZuLy44r78HXYGGUENjpNrZ%252FB5qsFEkfITbPFYJF3i4AwwdqEQbdUysNIXrWLLqrfR3iyTVPJ46gLBepeoQxtiLeSh0hwIfBHoAbIOwDmNNhjFEPxxqGGXapqglQOGOVEC3s2veRvDz8NUSzX0Zd8T9dT5jjOyflJr2M53vmdTqjk4xhE9r9%252FXJq1Y3ALRvgzW3kYBLryByaIXlSOccj7Gay8osFKkhuKf6dz4lu0mHRbUkedHvn7sLOetLpk1NlxrZ2Zxfe5lKQxxqbNOf%252FvIo7%252FEwQ22Qti1%252FzPg%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524
Here are some 0402 LEDs with the same wire:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/351249772568?_trkparms=aid%3D1110002%26algo%3DSPLICE.SOI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201210111451%26meid%3D80a3ecd364bd43a39eca04e96ab9d924%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D221513993078%26itm%3D351249772568%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DPromotedSellersOtherItemsV2WithMLRv3%26brand%3DUnbranded&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A35124977256880a3ecd364bd43a39eca04e96ab9d924%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAACEL%252Fq%252FUygc8YpI9vUPlelLIFamdG2bRWtJLFAIF5l%252FcbzN7abtaqdEhzHFcsCCMJNbucvzn6i6pCsrm%252BJtzTYwzkqtZcLlMGHeqlScy6WaKAndW1kXySJUhfo%252FrMQyf0V1H3sIj%252FrolKSvN%252BSoUKvmn95zqYXSiaAt03qb4jdwF92mBgETFuMLVFhP8vYrlCqLqJxcWfw7jGU0%252FOK6WbA39qh6BJyebdBjZlCrh5Z2pLty5DqlSBagOHuyip%252BPjOev9WaB%252BNCmJzZvjCOWtltVJLS8FQKYmdPzQR2R2%252B7%252Fy1k0KbRj%252FbSYsWCg3upCF3UoMJguMhMERUtFcTwrpSFRTsS1gSLq%252FgCePOKkmARR2bNA%252Baqz0i7jli3P9yPyfqf9%252BFnchRfeDDHN9mWr0syga7Ho6dyz%252FQFXkiddhAqrEsGNtp9BgrMnDXSLZt8CD%252F%252BO5%252BYjbhPC9UBPmww7n9N8QyiRJiSo8dYRu8TLWUmtS32IqpqaQ61blsHdhC3AVgYVVsUpiqJN%252FkT2CJQ4ciiLKCZ149cJNhJPMMNz6Om3CTuECyw%252Faf3hr%252FvxipiRe%252FtYIO9tqOHVP%252Fi8L4LXsmDTOGb5rsy%252BMw%252BhNgiP34NzJ2oNoqXx8RmiWD%252BcGo%252BxY2uTn8xRVdjGrO9STFFOAjJgCY3ThAcUw1yHfwNfTcIGLHFepS9v6fIFWUcIniITYM3sA%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Thanks, Dave!
I just ordered a set of the 0603s.
This is the lazy man's way out, I know...
PruittThis is the lazy man's way out, I know...
First, I hope the wires are fine enough to suit your needs.
Second, I don't think you are being lazy at all! I became quite proficient at soldering leads to 0603 and 0402 LEDs, but I had to ask why I was going to all that effort when somebody else was willing and able to do it for me for a very reasonable price. I decided that I'd rather reduce my neck and eye strain and spend my time on something else.
Cheers!!
I've purchased SMD LEDs with wires already soldered on. Some were soldered fine; some I didn't like the quality of the soldering (crooked wire(s), cold solder joint, etc) so I re-did myself. I guess that's the curse of being an electronics tech for 4 years.
If pre-wired LEDs help you accomplish what you want and need to do and you save time doing it, there's nothing wrong in that in my book.
I can give you an example of where buying prewired LEDs was well worth the price.
I bought eight Showcase Miniatures dwarf signals #2194. They offered prewired tri-colour LEDs to go with the kits, but they wanted $10.00 USD each, which I initially dismissed as being an outrageous price so I didn't buy them. I had some prewired 0605 (?) LEDs already on hand so I thought I would just use those. However, it soon became apparent that fitting my LEDs to the very narrow styrene signal bodies would require some kit bashing, and even with that, it didn't look like all the colours would shine properly through the lens.
Rather than butcher things, I decided to order the recommended LEDs from Showcase Miniatures despite the price. To make a long story short, their LEDs fit perfectly. The key to the perfect fit was that their LED outputs shine off of the edge of the LED board instead of shining straight out the front like most LEDs do. That allows the LED to be inserted into the narrow housing opening with its edge pointing towards the lens.
https://www.showcaseminiatures.net/ho_scale/ho_scale_signals_wigwags_trackside_details/2194.html
https://www.showcaseminiatures.net/ho_scale/ho_scale_signals_wigwags_trackside_details/LED0001.html
What the heck, it's only money!!
Dave,
I eagerly clicked on your first link, thinking this might be a working wigwag crossing signal, only to be sorely disappointed that it's only a dwarf signal. I need a wigwag for a highway crossing in Riverton. Be nice to find one that actually works.
The WigWag is on another page:
https://www.showcaseminiatures.net/ho_scale/ho_scale_signals_wigwags_trackside_details/2116.html
I'm currently using some Showcase etched stainless semaphore parts to make smashboards for my drawbridge and a long-arm crossing signal with two red lights at each end of the "semaphore" board to protect a diamond crossing I have.
I recently built one of the Showcase etched signal bridges they offer. It is an excellent kit. Their products are very well detailed.
Signal_11-21oh by Edmund, on Flickr
Those three-LED assemblies are above my pay grade to make by hand. I think I bought mine from Evan Designs. They look fantastic in a searchlight signal! The green is perfect for a signal light.
LED_tri-color by Edmund, on Flickr
Someday there might be some kind of ultrasonic transducer or microwave magnet that will be able to make the Wig do its Wag. Would be neat to see.
What about a small blower, like from a steam engine smoke unit, that blows a stream of air toward the wigwag and that activates it? Sort of like one of those windmills you see with the guy sawing wood when the wind blows
It could be mounted in a building nearby or somehow concealed.
Pruitt Dave, I eagerly clicked on your first link, thinking this might be a working wigwag crossing signal, only to be sorely disappointed that it's only a dwarf signal. I need a wigwag for a highway crossing in Riverton. Be nice to find one that actually works.
LOVE wigwags, Mark.