I have five Broadway Limited Imports E-series locomotives, all equipped with QSI Quantum decoders. Four of these locomotives are E7As and the decoder version is 005. The fifth locomotive is an E6A and the decoder version is 006. According to the large and lengthy QSI diesel manual, version 006 and earlier all program the same way.
For all the years that I have owned these five locomotives, I have never really paid attention to how the lights operate. But at long last, I am looking closely at how the lights operate. On the four E7As, the headlight and MARS light operate independently of one another. The headlight is controlled by either the HEADLIGHT button or the F0 button. The Mars light is controlled by the F12 button.
However, on the E6A, the headlight and the Mars light are both controlled by either the HEADLIGHT button or the F0 button. Pressing the F12 button does nothing.
According to the QSI diesel manual, there are ways to operate the headlight and MARS light independently of one another. I have tried everything, but either I fail to understand how to program indexed CVs or this particular decoder is not programming correctly.
I will stop here and ask if anyone familiar with programming the light functions on the QSI Quantum E-series decoders can comment on this issue.
Rich
Alton Junction
This is more than usually suspicious because it's the later decoder revision that has the limited feature set.
I suppose the initial stupid question I ask is "did the particular prototype E6 always have the upper and lower light on at the same time" -- it might be that someone programmed the specific decoder to be "prototypical" for a given roadname.
Stupid #2: When you read CVs with something like JMRI, does a value for F12 appear, and can you arrange to set a value for it through that interface?
Stupid #3: is it possible or safe to swap light boards or decoders between an E7 005 and the E6 006 to see where the functionality is deflicted?
I wouldn't rate those three questions as stupid questions.
Question #1. I had not even considered whether the operation of both lights together is prototypical, not so much for a roadname but possibly for a different E-series. For example, my E6 is C&NW, whereas the E7s are Wabash and UP. Did E7s operate the headlight and Mars light independently of one another while the E6 operated the two together as one?
Question #2. I have wondered if Decoder Pro can read indexed CVs so I could compare the CV values on an E7 to an E6.
Question #3. Swapping boards and decoders is a possibility, but I am not going there. Besides, I assume that if I did swap boards and decoders, the E6 would then work like an E7, and the E7 would then work like an E6.
On the one hand, I have to wonder if the decoder in my E6 is faulty. It wouldn't be the first time that I (or others) have encountered a faulty QSI Quantum decoder. Perhaps Version 006 misprogrammed the lights options, but then shouldn't I be able to correct them and separate the headlight and Mars light.
On the other hand, it may be my misunderstanding of indexed CVs that is the problem. Dunno.
If both lights work correctly (headlight on steady, Mars light 'blinks' simulating rotation) when you hit F0, that means the two light are connected to separate function outputs. Otherwise, they would both do the same thing - both be on steady or both 'blink' like the Mars light.
Think of it like say a GP or other diesel with front and rear headlights where the front headlight goes on when it's set to go forward, but goes out (and the rear one comes on) when going backwards. To get that to work, each light has to be set up to a separate output - even though both are programmed to respond to F0. If you connected both headlights to one output, then both lights would both go on in one direction and both be off in the other.
Anyway, Decoder Pro charts that all out for you so it's easy to change the function assignments and what each function does.
Assuming they are on two different function outputs, definitely just go the DecoderPro route for this. Should be quick. Even without a connection, you can use it to determine the CVs to change.
According to DecoderPro, the default for F12 on a QSI v6 in a BLI E6 is to report the scale speed in MPH when moving and speak a status report when in neutral.
To make F12 the Mars light instead, non-directional, it's CV53.11.0 and 53.11.1 both to 103. That allows F12 to control the Mars light when moving or when stopped.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker To make F12 the Mars light instead, non-directional, it's CV53.11.0 and 53.11.1 both to 103. That allows F12 to control the Mars light when moving or when stopped.
In your two CV53 assignments, why was the Primary Index (CV49) set to 11 and not to 12?
I finally got the Mars light to operate separately on the F12 key.
Here is what I had to do.
CV53.13.0=101 (Cab Lights to Function Output 13)
CV53.13.1=101 (Cab Lights to Function Output 13)
CV53.14.0=103 (Mars Light to Function Output 14)
CV53.14.1=103 (Mars Light to Function Output 14)
I had to move the Cab Lights (which do not actually exist on the E6) off of Function Output 14 and onto Function Output 13. Then, I could move the Mars Light off Function Output 1 and onto Function Output 14. Function Output 14 is controlled by Function Input 12 (F12 aka F-Key 12). Not sure why I just couldn't move the Mars Light off of Function Output 1 and onto Function Output 14 without messing with the Cab Lights function, but whatever.
I now no longer like QSI Quantum decoders. They are unnecessarily complex because QSI chose to load up the 14 available function outputs with unnecessary (IMO) lighting features.
I did notice that on the E7 locomotives the Mars light is actually on when the Headlight is on, but the Mars light is dim. On the E6 locomotive, the Mars Light is always bright and/or strobing. Not sure if that is an aberration with Version 6 versus Version 5. I may look further into that when I recover from this awful project.
Edit: well never mind, since you figured it out.
Remember how old these decoders are. They are the exact opposite of ESU. Fixed function to a fixed output to a fixed button. Some will say that makes it easier - I don't agree. ESU lets you map anythign to anything, in any way you like. It makes for a LOT more CVs, but it's 100% flexible - no one else does that.
That's just what JMRI said, for a version 6 on a BLI E6 with Mars light. No idea. In the Version 7 manual, it says 77 is the Mars feature, not 103. Don't have a Version 6 manual. Maybe it should be 12, not 11, and maybe 77 not 103.
Exactly.
One of the problems (IMO) with QSI Quantum is that it links the Headlight and the Mars light together to save function output space. It would be so much easier to be able to press FL or F0 for the headlight and something like F5 for the Mars light.
The Version 7 for the QSI Quantum greatly expanded the "features" for stuff like lighting from Version 6. Initially, I was unwittingly using the Version 7 manual for a Version 6 decoder. Ugh.
As you say, 77 is the Feature ID for the Mars light in Version 7 as opposed to 103 as the Feature ID in Version 6. In Version 7, the Mars light can do a lot more than in Version 6 (or earlier versions) such as Bright, Steady, Strobing, Dim in either forward, reverse, neutral, coming out of neutral, etc. But, who needs all of those features? Not me.
As always, Randy, thanks for your help.
Right, and they probably left out the one that actually would make sense by prototype use - Mars light on if emergency brake used.
rrinker Remember how old these decoders are. They are the exact opposite of ESU. Fixed function to a fixed output to a fixed button. Some will say that makes it easier - I don't agree. ESU lets you map anythign to anything, in any way you like. It makes for a LOT more CVs, but it's 100% flexible - no one else does that.
A modeler would be better off buying a Proto 2000 DCC Ready loco and installing a top notch sound decoder than buying a BLI Paragon with QSI sound.
Both of these types of locos can still be found in the form of new old stock. Although, in my case, I have owned the BLI Paragon E6A for over 15 years. I just never paid much attention to the lighting features and protocols until recently when my attention turned to the lighting. That's when I started noticing differences in the operation of the headlight and Mars light.
I have one non-Loksound loco, and that's my old Atlas Trainmaster with a QSI. Not even sure which version is in there. But CNJ, like Reading, didn't go in for Mars lights or other sorts of warning beacons, so it just has headlights. One of these days I will get around to changing it out. Just like one day I will upgrade my PCM T1 4-8-4s to a current Loksound decoder, they have v3.5 in them which are like toy train noises compared to a v5. But I'm holding out for one of the working T1s to get back in service, because I have no doubt ESU will get a recording of it. And when R&N gets 2102 finished, it's basically right in my backyard so I will definitely go take a ride. I'm less in a rush with those because I already did change out a few of the sounds for ones recorded off the real thing so they are already closer than what came out of the box from PCM.
The Trainmaster, well, I never heard a real FM prime mover, and it sound different from the Alco and EMD ones I have, so I guess it's close. What drives me nuts about it is the convoluted startup/shutdown of QSI. I just want the thing to power up silent like all my other locos, and start up when I hit F8, and shut down when I turn F8 off. Easy peasy. I can teach anyone that, just like telling them to hit the 2 for the horn. But - well, press F9 4 times (or is that F6....) and then to get it to make noise again, hit F6 twice - but don't goof up and hit F9 two more times....
Again, based on how old they are, the microcontrollers used in the decoders have certainly come along way, but you think they maybe could have made it a little simpler even within the limitations they had to deal with....
rrinker What drives me nuts about it is the convoluted startup/shutdown of QSI. I just want the thing to power up silent like all my other locos, and start up when I hit F8, and shut down when I turn F8 off. Easy peasy. I can teach anyone that, just like telling them to hit the 2 for the horn. But - well, press F9 4 times (or is that F6....) and then to get it to make noise again, hit F6 twice - but don't goof up and hit F9 two more times....
What drives me nuts about it is the convoluted startup/shutdown of QSI. I just want the thing to power up silent like all my other locos, and start up when I hit F8, and shut down when I turn F8 off. Easy peasy. I can teach anyone that, just like telling them to hit the 2 for the horn. But - well, press F9 4 times (or is that F6....) and then to get it to make noise again, hit F6 twice - but don't goof up and hit F9 two more times....
Gotta love millennials raised on Phineas and Ferb -- they grew up knowing every device has to have a big red Self-Destruct button ready to hand, and include equivalent functionality as a design element wherever possible. "It's Not A Bug, It's a Feature™ "
At least you could recover from the shutdown, unlike various brick modes...
In more serious news... can you provide a picture of the light board in the E6 and how it's wired to the decoder? I've got this picture of a single 'headlight' output from the decoder that goes to a light board, and split into multiple traces, with one trace going to the headlight, and another going to a circuit like a damped multivibrator that splits the output into two antiphased flashers (or 'theatre lighting' that brightens and dims each half of the Mars alternately to simulate 'swinging' motion a bit better). Thus, as the other thread about lighting logic voltages said, saving some parts count and decoder outputs...
I suspect it might be beneficial to see how the 005 setup in the E7s drives the lights, for comparison.
wjstix If both lights work correctly (headlight on steady, Mars light 'blinks' simulating rotation) when you hit F0, that means the two light are connected to separate function outputs. Otherwise, they would both do the same thing - both be on steady or both 'blink' like the Mars light. Think of it like say a GP or other diesel with front and rear headlights where the front headlight goes on when it's set to go forward, but goes out (and the rear one comes on) when going backwards. To get that to work, each light has to be set up to a separate output - even though both are programmed to respond to F0. If you connected both headlights to one output, then both lights would both go on in one direction and both be off in the other. Anyway, Decoder Pro charts that all out for you so it's easy to change the function assignments and what each function does.
Overmod can you provide a picture of the light board in the E6 and how it's wired to the decoder? I've got this picture of a single 'headlight' output from the decoder that goes to a light board, and split into multiple traces, with one trace going to the headlight, and another going to a circuit like a damped multivibrator that splits the output into two antiphased flashers (or 'theatre lighting' that brightens and dims each half of the Mars alternately to simulate 'swinging' motion a bit better). Thus, as the other thread about lighting logic voltages said, saving some parts count and decoder outputs... I suspect it might be beneficial to see how the 005 setup in the E7s drives the lights, for comparison.
can you provide a picture of the light board in the E6 and how it's wired to the decoder? I've got this picture of a single 'headlight' output from the decoder that goes to a light board, and split into multiple traces, with one trace going to the headlight, and another going to a circuit like a damped multivibrator that splits the output into two antiphased flashers (or 'theatre lighting' that brightens and dims each half of the Mars alternately to simulate 'swinging' motion a bit better). Thus, as the other thread about lighting logic voltages said, saving some parts count and decoder outputs...