crossthedog I'm seeing videos and articles that say that the way I wire my layout depends on whether I'm running DC or DCC. Yet this very thread is about just using one wiring scheme on the layout and simply throwing a switch between power sources.
When Randy and I started his NORFOLK SOUTHERN N scale layout, the intention was to switch the layout over to "Command Control" when that became practical in N scale. We started the layout in 1992 I believe.
The layout was wired for three-cab mainline DC operation, and a fourth cab for the main yard. All electrical blocks could be controlled by "Cab A".
When the time came to switch the layout to command control, all blocks would be set to Cab A with the power turned on, and the command control station would be hooked to the Cab A input. All other power packs would be removed.
So, you can build a layout for DC operation, then if it is designed properly, it can be converted to DCC easily in the future. It just takes some planning.
Typically, a layout that is designed from the Get-Go for DCC will have much simpler wiring from the beginning.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Thanks guys,
It will take me a while to reread and absorb all this. There seem to be myriad factors, each one affecting everything else, so how about we start with one simpler question: would running bus wires around under the entire layout to serve feeder wires from above be a good starting point for both DC and DCC, no matter how many locos I want to run in DC or DCC?
I have already drilled holes for bus wiring in the crossbeams that span L-girder to L-girder, just because I thought I'd be wanting to add bus wires. Now I'm not sure what I need, but now would be the time to do that.
I don't envision running more than one train on my mainline at a time in DC, and I don't have room for a yard, but I have some industry spurs so to answer Randy's question, it would be nice to be able to do a little local switching - or park locos -- on a long spur while running a longer train on the mainline, so I can see where isolating a few blocks would be useful (if, Randy, I understood your suggestion correctly). And I assume that's what LastSpikeMike meant by "multiple cab DC block control".
And I think I'm going to use the single-plug method of switching from DC to DCC that was mentioned earlier. I posted a rough of my layout plan earlier today on the General form and it's been moved to the Layouts forum if that helps.
I had thought this was going to be easier to understand. :/
Thanks again,
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
crossthedogI don't envision running more than one train on my mainline at a time in DC, and I don't have room for a yard, but I have some industry spurs so to answer Randy's question, it would be nice to be able to do a little local switching - or park locos
Question... is it your intention to eventually convert to DCC?
This is my system to decide whether or not DCC is right for you... ask yourself these three quesitons:
1) Do you understand DC wiring well enough to install and troubleshoot it without help?
2) Do you already own a substantial number of DC locomotives?
3) Can you live without sound?
Unless you can answer "YES" to ALL THREE questions, you should plan to switch over to DCC.
So, if you will eventually switch to DCC, I would suggest you wire the layout for one DC cab, and just run one train at a time. Install SPST on/off switches on any spur or other track where you will want to park a locomotive/train.
Then when you switch to DCC, you will most likely just need to hook up the DCC system to where the DC power pack was, turn all the switches on, and you should be good to go.
Guys, thank you again. This very specific, focused input is helping.
Mike, it occurs to me to ask how I would lay a single loop of bus wire (is it a loop?) under every piece of track when the layout is actually a folded dogbone.
Lastspikemike Yes. Run a pair of bus wires under every piece of track. ..You'll want to connect power feeders at fairly frequent intervals to connect power in addition to the conduction at rail joiners. Duplicating the path of the rails with two bus wires accomplishes that.
Yes. Run a pair of bus wires under every piece of track. ..You'll want to connect power feeders at fairly frequent intervals to connect power in addition to the conduction at rail joiners. Duplicating the path of the rails with two bus wires accomplishes that.
I'm assuming this means just going around the perimeter of the layout underneath. It's basically a fat L but the loop folds under itself. I wouldn't "follow" the tracks would I?
Kevin, your Bridgemaster's Questions Three helped a lot.
SeeYou190 is it your intention to eventually convert to DCC? This is my system to decide whether or not DCC is right for you... ask yourself these three quesitons: 1) Do you understand DC wiring well enough to install and troubleshoot it without help? 2) Do you already own a substantial number of DC locomotives? 3) Can you live without sound? Unless you can answer "YES" to ALL THREE questions, you should plan to switch over to DCC.
is it your intention to eventually convert to DCC?
Yes, I can see myself converting entirely to DCC someday. I already have the NCE Power Cab Starter Set and one wonderful SP&S RS-3 loco -- Atlas YB with DCC added, a real sweetie -- but I also have several old DC locos (not zillions) and I like them. I can live without sound. But I DO NOT have an intuitive understanding of electronics and I get confused easily. I'm not sure that "without help" is important; if I've learned anything in life it's that I'm not going far without asking for and accepting help from others. Still, your practical, recommendation is a useful starting point. I CAN live with just one engine running on the mainline and maybe some switching on a branch/spur.
More anon, I'm sure.
Thanks,
What about a DC layout with electrically isolated blocks? (DPDT to every block)
crossthedog I'm not sure that "without help" is important; if I've learned anything in life it's that I'm not going far without asking for and accepting help from others.
In this case, DCC is surely the way to go for the final operation system.
People that can help with DC are getting harder and harder to find, and we are very much stuck in the "my way of doing it" mode.
On the other hand, helpful people with DCC knowledge are easy to find, and generally offer very good advice when you encounter trouble, if you know who to tune out.
SeeYou190People that can help with DC are getting harder and harder to find
This really makes me miss my dad, who knew it all. May he rest eternally within earshot of a steam whistle.
And after this discussion, I've got my solution. I'm going to move my family into the basement -- we can sleep on cots -- and I'm going to take over one bedroom for a DC layout and another one for a DCC layout.