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Adding electrical pickups to a brass steam engine

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  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: Lancaster city
  • 682 posts
Adding electrical pickups to a brass steam engine
Posted by cats think well of me on Thursday, January 14, 2021 11:05 PM

Hi all,

A few months ago I acquired a locomotive I knew would be a project, an Oriental Limited PRR M1b Mountain from about 1985. The motor and gearbox seem to run solidly, so I'll retain those, but I wish to upgrade from DC to DCC and sound. First step will be to add additional electrical pickups to the locomotive. I'd read somewhere online about doing so using PC-Board ties, so I ordered a set of N-scale ones from Clover House, and I'll solder one to the bottom plate, after I strip the paint off of it, and use some wire and I'm thinking of using cut up Kadee phosphor coupler centering springs cut to fit and soldering those on to the PC-board with a wire going to the negative electrical lead on the motor. Any thoughts on this scenario? I already replaced the metal drawbar with a plastic one from American Scale Models. I put the bottom plate into some lacquer thinner thinking it would dissolve right away and much to my surprise, the old paint is tough! It was a custom job and I may repaint in time, but I'm going to get the mechanical and electrical work done first. 

Alvie

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, January 15, 2021 1:02 AM

I've done the pick-ups using the Kadee springs, and they work okay... (click on the photos for a larger view)

...and I also added them to the tender, too...

On subsequent rebuilds, I switched to using Tichy's phosphor-bronze wire, and I now prefer it, as it's easier to alter the pressure against the wheels...

For brass locos, I usually use double-sided copper-clad board, either soldering it to the coverplate, or, when clearances are tight, replace the coverplate with the copper-clad board.
To isolate the wipers, I use either an X-Acto knife or a utility knife to cut a strip of the copper cladding from both the centre of the board and from around any screw heads if the board is held in place by the coverplate screws.

The tender can be fitted with similar wipers, too, with single-sided board affixed to the truck bolsters with contact cement, or double-sided board, soldered to the truck bolsters.

Wayne

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
  • 2,899 posts
Posted by Paul3 on Friday, January 15, 2021 1:07 AM

I run a bunch of brass steam that I've put DCC into, and honestly I've never been tempted to add electrical pick up wipers to any of them.  Instead, I add a capacitor pack like a Power Extender or something similar.

I would buy phosphor bronze wire for adding wipers rather than Kadee box springs.  I don't trust that sheet metal to last or not get messed up from handling.  The wire would be stronger.

Why did you replace the metal drawbar with a plastic one?  Where are you going to install the decoder & speaker, in the boiler or the tender?

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Friday, January 15, 2021 1:08 AM

These are an option, too. I've used them on an 0-6-0.

Good Luck, Ed

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Ontario Canada
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Posted by Mark R. on Friday, January 15, 2021 1:11 AM

In my personal experience - and I've added a lot of those extra wipers in the past - if you are going DCC, forget all the extra wipers and just add a stay alive unit to your decoder. I found it to be a whole lot less labor intensive to install and the results were as good if not better than getting more pick up points installed.

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, January 15, 2021 1:18 AM

cats think well of me
I'm thinking of using cut up Kadee phosphor coupler centering springs cut to fit and soldering those on to the PC-board with a wire going to the negative electrical lead on the motor.

If you are installing DCC the power from all wheels will be routed to the decoder, not directly to the motor.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Friday, January 15, 2021 9:06 AM

 There are some benefits to having all-wheel pickup inbstead of split pickup, when crossing between booster districts or when crossing gapes for autoreversers.

 Plus if the loco AND tender both pick up from both rails, there is no reason for a keep alive capacitor.

                                        --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, January 15, 2021 9:42 AM

I am only going to address the power pick up since I do not use DCC.

Long before I ever owned a brass locomotive, I was a young member of Scale Rails of Southwest Florida. One of the older members, Roger, ran a lot of brass locomotives, and my electrical strategy came from his experience.

He did not use the locomotive for electrical pick up. The thought was that a good four axle diesel only uses eight wheels for electrical pick-up, so a steam locomotive using all of the tender wheels for pick up should run just fine, and his certainly did.

NWSL makes wipers for this. I use them and replace the brass tender trucks with plastic trucks and high quality metal wheels. The trucks that come with BLI NYC boxcars are my favorites.

I also replace the drawbar with plastic, and make a hardwire connection from the tender to the motor. The drawbar is not as good a connection as wire and a mini-plug. A plastic drawbar also moves more freely from side to side.

Adding some extra weight in the tender is a big help.

I only have one locomotive set up like this so far, my Tenshodo 0-8-0, and it runs just fine with zero electrical problems.

Sorry, no pictures.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    November 2013
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Posted by snjroy on Friday, January 15, 2021 10:46 AM

gmpullman

These are an option, too. I've used them on an 0-6-0.

Good Luck, Ed

 

Thanks for sharing Ed. I'm also an advocate of adding wipers to the tender wheels. I've never tried the wiper on the driver solution. In any case, the extra wiper solution is a lot more reliable and way cheaper than the stay-alives, based on my experience...

I looked at the video. Two things: 1) While ESU should be congratulated for producing an off-the-shelf product for which there is a true need, the solution proposed really only adds one wheel of power for each truck. My hand made ones covers all four wheels... and 2) the "fix" proposed by the author to the product is not that easy to do. I think I will continue making my own pickups from phospor-bronze sheets as it is just as much trouble going from scratch than doing the fix proposed by the guy on the video... Anyway, that's my two-cents worth on that.

Simon

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Ontario Canada
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Posted by Mark R. on Friday, January 15, 2021 11:38 AM

rrinker

 There are some benefits to having all-wheel pickup inbstead of split pickup, when crossing between booster districts or when crossing gapes for autoreversers.

 Plus if the loco AND tender both pick up from both rails, there is no reason for a keep alive capacitor.

                                        --Randy

  For me it was a time factor. I'd much rather solder three wires from a power pack to the decoder as opposed to spending two or three evenings fabricating / installing / wiring pick ups to all the non-powered wheels.

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Friday, January 15, 2021 11:50 AM

 I only have 3 steam locos that I run, and 2 of them alreayd pick up from both sides of the tender and the loco fromt he factory. The other picks up from all wheels, but is just a little 0-6-0, I will probably add track wipers to it. It's mostly going to sit around for looks anyway, as it's actual task is not really possible with models, unless I build up some dummy locos for it to move around. Models with the typical worm drive don't easily go in to a "dead in tow" mode to be shoved around by other locos.

                                            --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 2,775 posts
Posted by snjroy on Friday, January 15, 2021 4:59 PM

Hi there. You could add a small tender to the 0-6-0. It did happen in real life...

Simon

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Friday, January 15, 2021 10:39 PM

 Not on my prototype, always was, and still is, an 0-6-0T. Well, not totally true - it was actually built from a 2-8-0 camelback! But after conversion, no more tender. No tender during its days pulling a tourist train, and no tender now stuffed and mounted on display.

                                 --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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