richhotrainI have often thought that it would be a good addition to the software to give an OP the ability to delete posts from his own thread for whatever the reason.
The current idea is that 'the poster owns his or her content' and can be the only one (other than a moderator) who removes it; in fact, moderators aren't even allowed to edit it -- only wipe it. I'd love to be able to to back to 'the old days' but that almost certainly won't come to be.
I do subscribe to the moral principle that an OP 'owns' the topic enough to ask that it stay on topic, and request that off-topic (or distracting, or poorly-worded) material be revised or removed. It's fun when threads drift creatively, sometimes, but not when you've posted a specific concern and are looking for answers or directed assistance.
I don't see any way that switch arrangement could have caused his Power Cab to have problems; about the only thing I could suggest is to use a multimeter between each separate wire and center 'common' to see if the switch has some fault approaching the 'neutral' position from either side on either pole.
OvermodThe current idea is that 'the poster owns his or her content' and can be the only one (other than a moderator) who removes it; in fact, moderators aren't even allowed to edit it -- only wipe it.
[Side note: Not sure where you got that info, Overmod. A moderator does have the ability and authority to "edit" a post if part or parts of it have violated the forum policy. Examples of this are swearing (or symbols) that the forum software doesn't catch, email addresses, and links to other forums. The rule of thumb is to be as minimally invasive as possible when surgically removing the offense and let what remains stand on its own. However, there are times when that is not possible and the entire post (or series of posts) have to be deleted.
Okay, back to the regularly scheduled program...Tom]
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
New surge protector arriving today. New wiring and IDCs arriving in the next few days. Ordered a NCE EB1 v1.1 circuit breaker, should arrive this week. PowerCab arriving at NCE today.
The DPDT will be thoroughly tested during the rewiring process.
The DC side still works great.....
Bill
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig"
New surge protector arrived today, a nice substantial Tripp-Lite Ultrablok. Plugged it into the outlet the old one was in and the fault light lit up. Hmmmm.... Plugged it into the other outlet and the green "Line OK" and "Protection OK" lights lit up. Might have found our culprit....
Some joker swapped line and neutral? One of those little plug in testers with 3 LEDs will tell you what's wrong. Best to have the faulty outlet fixed before it gets used for something else.
Seems unlikely though, as the power supply for the PowerCab is only 2 wire, so unless a connection to ground was made, reversed phase or a missing ground on the outlet in question shouldn't have caused an issue.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
How do you wire half an outlet backward from the other, unless he has one of those wacky 'lamp' outlets where the upper half is separated at the tabs and wired to a wall switch?
Or someone broke off the side tabs - most any outlet can be made a "switch" one. But then you'd be completely missing hot or neutral and the PwerCab never would ahve worked at all. Or it's simply a broken outlet - most homes are built with the cheapest junk ever. I still have many to repalce in my house. ANd the crazy things I've seen just in the box behind a simple outlet, and just in the palces I've lived in - NOTHING would surprise me. And this is stuff original to the house, which should have been done by a licensed electrician and inspected, not something some homeowner added on themselves (that stuff is even worse).
rrinkerBut then you'd be completely missing hot or neutral and the PowerCab never would have worked at all.
Even electrical people make mistakes especially on very long days.
rrebellEven electrical people make mistakes especially on very long days.
Then there is the kind of 'stupidity' that I think was intended to punish do-it-yourselfers who don't want to hire inside the journeyman/master system. I had a warehouse that had been wired with 220V and discovered a junction box that had a black wire that changed to a white wire inside -- imagine the fun if you naively trusted that color coding.
And then there's just stuff you can't explain rationally. B&S had at one time a considerable 'appliance department' which included quite a few TVs, which were turned on to show the displays and sound. These were in magnificently-crafted built-in display racks, with heavy 20A outlets joined by armored BX carefully anchored into fittings. When we shut down the home-furnishings location, we went to move these into the warehouse. The BX behind the displays was spliced into a piece of 12ga. Romex ... this for something like 30 televisions, some of which were very large floor models, all of which were CRTs. Then the Romex went into a single length of 16ga. lamp cord which terminated in a two-prong plug. into a plain old wall socket.
Or should I say the remains of a two-prong plug and a plain old wall socket. Any vestige of plastic or rubber in the plug was long departed, as was the face of the socket: there was bare hardware joining bare hardware, perhaps the most terrifying kludge I have ever seen.
(Actually, I saw something worse than that, but it involved avoiding electrical connection rather than installing it, so it can wait for another time.)
ANYWAY -- just swapping the two wires on the socket that throws the 'exception' ought to fix the indication on the surge-protection device. I have never considered this something that 'requires an electrician' to fix ... if you understand electricity reasonably, and use proper procedure and care.
Incidentally, I recommend that any homeowner carefully map their breakers at some point, and label them very carefully to document 'what goes to what' in the house. It is surprising how slipshod, and sometimes how error-prone, the labeling you find at the breakers can be...
OvermodIncidentally, I recommend that any homeowner carefully map their breakers at some point, and label them very carefully to document 'what goes to what' in the house. It is surprising how slipshod, and sometimes how error-prone, the labeling you find at the breakers can be...
Mike
Returning to the original topic.....question about the installation of the EB1 v1.1 circuit breaker. From what I have read, this should not be used for DC track power. Since I have DC and DCC going into a DPDT center-off switch, I conclude that the EB1 should be wired into the lines running from the PowerCab to the DPDT switch so that it's out of the DC circuit. Does that seem correct?
alfadawg01I conclude that the EB1 should be wired into the lines running from the PowerCab to the DPDT switch so that it's out of the DC circuit. Does that seem correct?
This is exactly backward from the 'normal' use of a double-throw switch, where two outputs are being 'chosen between' with the center being common. Here the power is coming in on the outer poles, and the 'common' in the center is what's going to the track, with the 'center off' being to ensure that both powers can't ever be simultaneously connected.
So the breaker has to go between the power and the load, but can't be in the 'common path' from the switch to the track. Ergo it should be wired as you conclude, in my opinion at least.
OvermodSo the breaker has to go between the power and the load, but can't be in the 'common path' from the switch to the track. Ergo it should be wired as you conclude, in my opinion at least.
Thanks for your comments. I just needed to do a reality check so I don't screw things up again.
Heard from Mike at NCE this afternoon. My PowerCab suffered from a fried track power output circuit. It's fixed and should be on it's way back to me, $70 later. Sigh....
However, all is in readiness for it's return. Upgraded bus wiring, everything checked for shorts, new and more robust surge protection and an EB1 v1.1 circuit breaker.
WOW ! I thought this was a new PC you just got at Christmas?
Am I wrong? How does one fry a output circuit. This is inside the PC hand held throttle, right? If what I have stated above is correct I would not be happy paying $70 to repair.
One thing I don't know that was asked in the thread - did you disconnect your old DC power pack from the layotu when you connected the PowerCab? Feeding DC power in with the PowerCab connector can and will fry the PowerCab.
I have not re-read the thread but I seem to remember that the OP had installed a DPDT toggle switch to switch between DC & DCC. However, there was a question as to whether it was faulty or wire properly. I also remember questioning whether the Power Cab suffered from an electrical spike or power surge from the outlet.
Tom
I did see the power surge concern - but I highly doubt that was it. A surge on the input power woudl likely killt he ProCab functionality aprt as well as the command station part.
A link between the DC and the PowerCab though - that WOULD fry the output drivers of the command station part - and given that the display was showing the ProCab part booting up fine but the PowerCab command station part was not functioning...
I do have a DPDT center off switch to toggle between DC and DCC. It is possible that after I had turned on the PowerCab I threw the switch from off to DCC. My protocol now will be to set it for DCC before I turn on the PowerCab. I'm also considering the suggestion that some type of plugs be used to connect one or the other system to prevent a cross connection between the two. However, I never had both systems powered up at the same time.
And, yeah, the $70 sucks, especially since I can't attribute the problem to a specific event. I've just made all the checks and tests I could and did upgrades where it seemed they would help. If there's still a mystery short circuit out there, the EB1 will take the hit. Should be back in my hands by the weekend, then we shall see.
Your protocol will not work- you will forget sometime and proof! you need to have a DPDT switch to the power supply of the DCC system AND the DC power supply/ only one can be on at a time.
Two switches? How can you then ensure only one will be on at a time?
A DPDT center off, properly wired, will keep things isolated. Only one set of contacts can be closed at a time, and there is no bridging of the contacts in the middle of switchover, that's what the center off is for.
Want to really be sure? You can buy DPDT knife switches. Bonus, makes the layout look like a mad scientist's lab. But there is absolutely no way to mess up witha knife switch and connect the two inputs together. Like this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Ajax-Scientific-DPDT-Knife-Switch/dp/B00EPQ7V7K/ref=sr_1_25?dchild=1&keywords=knife+switch&qid=1612919164&sr=8-25
DCC to one pair of black terminals at one end, DC to the other pair of black terminals at the other end, and track to the red terminals in the middle.
The first successful isolated DC-DCC layout using a knife switch...
My PowerCab returned from NCE today. Tested it on a short test track and all seems functional so far. So far so good.
Thanks to all for your suggestions, insights and assistance.