Needs to be cheap and can add sound later and be plug and play 8 pin but like my search for Proto 0-6-0, lots of decoders to go though. CNCharlie came up with a decoder that fit the bill for the 0-6-0 which was a DH165LO, those will be on order as soon as I finish making my list of needs. Don't know if I should go to Yankee Dabbler or Trainworld, about the same cost for stuff, know TW's shipping but not Yankees, don't care about time as I have lots of projects going.
Try Litchfield Station. Their pricing for DCC supplies is generally very good. S&H is normally $4 (USPS) from AZ and I get it here in OH in 2-3 days.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage Try Litchfield Station. Their pricing for DCC supplies is generally very good. S&H is normally $4 (USPS) from AZ and I get it here in OH in 2-3 days. Tom
I've had good luck with SBS4DCC:
https://store.sbs4dcc.com/DigitraxDH165L0DCCDecoder.aspx
Good Luck, Ed
So, I can use the same decoder for both the 0-6-0 and the VO's?
I posted a picture, the TCS T1 fit in my VO. THe MC2 would fit even better. A DH165L0 isn't going to fit.
I also repalced the orange LEDs in mine with Minatronics Yelo-Glo golden white, simply by using a pair of needle nose pliers and benting the leads of the Miniatronics LED to match the shape of the original orange LEDs, so I could just use the same retainer clips. No soldering. I have pictures of that, too.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I did the same thing with my two VO-660s and VO-1000, Randy. Yea, just match the bends of the old LED leads and the replacment LED works just fine with those front & rear copper contacts.
rrinker I posted a picture, the TCS T1 fit in my VO. THe MC2 would fit even better. A DH165L0 isn't going to fit. I also repalced the orange LEDs in mine with Minatronics Yelo-Glo golden white, simply by using a pair of needle nose pliers and benting the leads of the Miniatronics LED to match the shape of the original orange LEDs, so I could just use the same retainer clips. No soldering. I have pictures of that, too. --Randy
Another question is why the decoders are far more expencive than for the one decided on for 0-6-0, $21.60 vs $31.99
I posted a pic in the previous thread asking for the stema loco and the VO-1000. The whole series which also shows changing the LED is the first one here: Decoder Installs (readingeastpenn.com)
Some decoders are better than others., Or have different features. Also, this is a good example of why hard wiring is the better way to go. The harness from 9 pin to 8 pin for the TCS decoder is $10 all on its own. The T1 decoder with just wires is $25. The DH165L0 has no harness required, it's all just on one board, so the price is more comparable to the T1 without harness. I have a couple of more of these locos, one I bought a Bowser sound chassis to just swap shells, the others I will put sound in myself and I will definitely be ditching the factory board to make enough room.
TCS has better lighting with LEDs, and also better motor drive (though it seems Jeff Otto, with the giant Missabe layout, vehemently disgress with me). There is a serious of accumultaed jerks in the Digitrax BEMF implementation (computers count in binary, and binary cannot exactly match every decimal number, so there are small errors in calculations that accumulate. You can either allow for this in the code, or as they read a certain threshold, round off - which appears to be the way Digitrax does it). No amount of fiddling has ever gotten this eliminated with all sorts of adjustments tot he CVs. Maybe it doesn;t happen when using 28 steps, but I always run with 128 steps, and as you gradually advance the throttle, there are 3 or 4 points where the difference in speed from one step to the next is greater than the rest. I don't have this with TCS decoders, they are smooth from step 1 to 126 (there really aren't 128 steps, some are reserved). Jeff says his steam locos are all jerky with TCS's BEMF. I have all diesels, and they are all P2K or better motors, and I've never had a problem - at first run after installing the decoder they are a bit jerky as the TCS self adjusting BEMF does its thing but after running a few feet they are smooth, and remain so.
You can see why I get confused. The only way I have been able to cope is look up each decoder suggested and then find one that fits my situation, and people wonder why some don't like DCC. If it were not for sound, I would be one of them.
Sound is lower on the priority list for me. I'd rather have great motor-control than sound - particular with my switchers. That's why I'm willing to pay a little extra for TCS decoders. I also like the independent control of each locomotive.
A basic wired decodr will fit in nearly ANY loco - another reson I hard wire mine. I don;t need 5 different shape decoders, I just put the same one in most every loco.
Each manufacturer has some sort of chart like Kadee's coupler chart to tell you which of their decoders fits in a specific loco. But with so many locos and manufacturers making changes to the mechanisms all the time, it's hard to keep up.
The only real reason to use the DH165L0 in the P2K 0-6-0 is because it already has resistors for Life Like's light bulbs. If swapping for LEDs - you can stick anything in there.
Bottom line - you need to install a decoder to use the locoon DCC> There are as many different locos as, well, cars maybe. Even two different models fromt he same manufacturer can have different internals, so you can't just say "use decoder X in Atlas locos". However, most HO locos have wires exposed in the internal layout, which means a decoder that ends in wires instead of being in a special board shape ro size can generally be used, in anything.
It could be worse - you could be in N scale. Then you could be having to figure out which of 5 different "Atlas" decoders go in the Atlas loco you have based on loco model, which run it is, etc. And then which of 4 "Kato" decoders go in the Kato loco you have. And in general - only the right one will actually work.
rrebell You can see why I get confused. The only way I have been able to cope is look up each decoder suggested and then find one that fits my situation, and people wonder why some don't like DCC. If it were not for sound, I would be one of them.
tstage Sound is lower on the priority list for me. I'd rather have great motor-control than sound - particular with my switchers. That's why I'm willing to pay a little extra for TCS decoders. I also like the independent control of each locomotive.
Rich
Alton Junction
I have a small layout but even when I had a large one I ussually ran one train at a time and no doubles except for the CMX car. I had radio control on last layout for walk around. I even have a Train Engineer on board set up and about 10 decoders. I saw the first DCC stuff and the problems it had (most of those are gone now). My current fleet of engines that are running on the main (test of main yard is still on DC because I find it eisier to test in DC as if you blow it there is less chance of damage), are mostly Bachmann sound value which I am fairly happy with. Cost is not an issue but it always is if you used to be poor if you know what I mean. Sorry that is just me and remember well when Burger King was a luxury for the family.
I have always been attracted to independent control - ever since the first time I cam across the David Sutton "Complete Book of Model Railroading" as a kid and read the chapters on ASTRAC - which was already long gone. Being in a similar situation, everything I did model railroad wise was a scrounge - a couple of my layouts, my neighbor, who was a turck driver, gave me sheets of plywood which were leftover packing material from loads he carried - the receivers just dump that stuff back in the trailer and it's ther owner/operator's responsibility to clean out his trailer. Not the highest quality plywood, and most of it had forklift tracks on it, but once painted - you couldn;t tell. I scrounged parts to build a transistor throttle from Peter THorne's book, but never did get it all. ANd hoped it would have worked - to save money, I use my budding electronic knowledge to elininate part of the designt o simplify it (left out the fance adjustable pulse circuit). I'll have to dig up the book, I still had it, and I drew my modified schematic right int he margins of the book, and see if it would have worked, now that I actually know how that stuff works. It took my months of saving up birthday money and chore money to get a Tech II 1500 - I really wanted a 2500 but that was way out of my budget, and since I was in N scale at the time, it was powerful enough. My layout didn't have many turnouts - too expensive, even back then. And my dislike for most Bachmann - it took me forever to save up for the loco I wanted, the N scale Bachmann Santa Fe 4-8-4. When I finally got it and brought it home - a HUGE disappointment. It ran like garbage. Even on straight track, though my curves were pretty generous, none of that 9.75" radius stuff. The plastic side rods would always bind. It woudl slip out of quarter which shouldn;t happen with each axle geared, but it did. Power pickup was horrible, my little 6 wheel Atlas Plymouth switcher would run nice and slow reliably around my layout, but the Northern would stall constantly. Today, I find better quality diesels for in HO for less than I paid for that (in actual dollars, not adjusted for inflation), and I am not too terribly upset if some minor tweaking is required to make a new loco run right, especially as all it usually takes IS minor tweaking and then they run like fine watches. But this thing - this to me back then is the equivalent now of finally being able to go out and buy my dream car, and to find out after 5 minutes of driving it that it's a complete lemon. We always had food, clothing, and a roof over our heads, but there was little left over for fun stuff other than birthdays or Christmas.
I'm still frugal. It's taken me 3 tries to finally find a partner who is close to the same, allowing me to have things in order. Even though I budget for such things, I still get anxious when I make a purchase of supplies to continue on my layout.
To the present day and DCC - part of why I do hardwire installes instead of buying special form factor decoders. And why I clean my track and keep it clean instead of buying keep alives for every loco. I'm cheap. I have enough locos with DCC and/or sound to get me going, but I have a large backlog of other locos that still need decoders. And some need paint and decals even. I'm planning on doing all 'new' installs as sound decoders going forward. I'll simply take longer to get them all converted than if I did just motor decoders - since the cost is about 4 to 1 - I could do 3-4 locos with motor only decoders for the cost of doing one with sound (counting the decoder, speaker, etc.). It's a hobby - what's the rush?
rrebell So, I can use the same decoder for both the 0-6-0 and the VO's?
Couple of things, fist Rinker, how you doing now? Now on to decoders, my fist install was from a first generation Spectrum decoder, don't know what it was but it was bad or maybe it was just my lack of know how (but it did work). One of my real problems is not enough room, used to have a dedicated work area and dedicated computer area, now one space dose it all and train layout to boot. I have never been good at electronics but I can build a house and have redone a 4 story apt building mostly by myself (don't know if I would be that brave now, LOL).
Hey, I appreciate the conversation, with little of it going on around here of that, even with people in my own pod. It was fine for most of it but now that it is turning the corner, seems people are avoiding each other, kinda of like a war where no one wants to be the last to be shot.
I'm doing pretty good these days. Not "go buy a car as a present for someone" like in the commercials this time of year, but if I need a couple of turnouts I don't have to pre-plan to spend the money (but I always obsess over making the payment).
It doesn't take much space - in my apartment before buying the house, I had one room which had to house the layout AND my workbench for building models and whatever else. I had an old small computer desk, once the various parts cabinets and tools were arrayed on top. the actual work area wasn't all that big, less than 2x3 feet for sure. I built car kits, installed decoders, soldered section of flex track, etc. in that space, stuck back in what had been a dormer window before the space was divided into two rooms. Behind it, I had an even smaller super cheap desk for my super small computer I built to use JMRI and Lokprogrammer.
I don't see what's so complicated about a sound decoder - it's two more wires going to the speaker, the rest of the install is exactly the same. It's a mechanical thing - finding space for the speaker - not an electrical thing. And even without the specialized hardware like the Lokprogrammer, all the main tier DCC vendors will load your choice of sound on an ESU decoder when you order it, for no extra charge. Since I am not using many different types of decoders and have settled on using only Loksound - it was well worth it to get the programmer. Not only to load sound files, but ESU also occasionally offers feature updates via firmware upgrades. For example, the V4 and Select decoders did not have Drive/Hold when originally released. I have a couple of older ones that do not have this. However, once I get set back up, I can put each loco on the Lokprogrammer program track and update them and gain this feature - no buying a new decoder, no need to even remove the loco shell.
I am doing fantastic money wise for two reasons, I took advantage of the crash for part of that, wish I had done more but I guess it could have gone the other way and there is no place to spend money, no eating out, no vacations and even places like Ross were lacking in merchandice out here, could barly by x-mas presents, shelves were pretty bare. I feel really good about not being a landlord anymore, missed that bullet!!!!