People are throwing away tender pickups? The more pickups, the better, no such thing as too many (ok, maybe if the loco picked up on both side, the tender on both sides, AND you added sliders to the loco AND tender, it would classify as overkill).
But the factory DC lighting boards? Too many times they are either junk or completely unecessary. The 'board pictured back at the beginning, same as used in several P2K diesels, is nothing but a bunch of diodes (free parts!) that server zero purpose with DCC. In fact, plugging a decoder into the provided plug means that board can;t ALSO be plugged in, so all it does it take up space. There are other P2K locos that have a board with a great big resistor on them, no 8 pin socket, but holes where it directs you to solder the decoder wires to - aftr cutting some traces on the board to make it work. Since there's no going back after that (ok, you could solder jumper wires across the cut traces), why bother? Just remove the board, install the decoder. Now you have an intact board which you could reinstall if you wanted to convert the loco back to pure DC.
In the smaller P2K diesels that have the same board as that 0-8-0, the extra board that holds the 8 pin socket is realtively large - simply to be able to hold those silly plastic clips that hold the wires on. I don't even retain that, it makes for a neater and more reliable installation. On locos where the board stays, if it has those plastic caps, the wires get soldered. Those caps are unreliable. Need some? I probably have a small handful removed from various installs. Not sure why I don't just throw them away.
And those P2K PAs, FAs, and E units witht he Mars lights - the factory board in there is yet another hot mess that serves no useful purpose. Just about any DCC decoder cna do a better Mars light effect with a single LED or bulb direct from a function wire than that silly dual filament light bulb they used. Out it all comes, leaves you with a nice large mounting platform in the back for the decoder.
I don't think you could look at any of my decoder installs and call it a hack job. Except perhaps the first P2K S1 one I did, installing a DH163L0 just to prove it could be done - had to mill away a bit of the frame to make it fit, but hey, I didn't have to change the light bulbs that way! Subsequent ones have LEDs and a decoder that actually fits in the space provided, with no milling.
(thought I had some pics, I do, but not on my web space.)
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinkerBut the factory DC lighting boards? Too many times they are either junk or completely unecessary.
I have a shoebox full!
DCC_PCBa by Edmund, on Flickr
Someday I'll find a use for them — someday. You'll see.
Ed
I'll have more when I start going whole hog on the sound. I have unsoldered the diodes on a LL board because I needed a diode for something and since Radio Shack is no more, it takes at least 2 days to get them from Amazon.
When I bought my Bachmann locomotives (8 Consolidations, 2 Ten Wheelers, a USRA Light Mountain, and a USRA 2-6-6-2) the first thing I did was remove the circuit boards from the tenders and get rid of the plug system.The circuit boards aren't needed for DC operation, and the replacement plugs that I use are much easier to connect/disconnect when necessary, and don't cause difficulties on tight curves.All of the tenders were modified to have fully-modelled coal bunkers (I use loose "coal") and all got extra weight, as did all of the locomotives.
My six Athearn Genesis Mikados got similar upgrades, along with tender pick-ups. I modified all of the lcomotives with added weight, which properly balanced them, making them very respectable pullers.
I sometimes keep the boxes for locomotives, but not for storing the locos, as most modified locos won't fit in the original box, even if the foam insert is modified. They are useful for storing other stuff, though.
All of my locomotives have also had the lights removed. Headlights in daytime were not required in my layout's era, and "nighttime" running is of no interest to me.
Wayne
I bought one a Life-Like 0-8-0 when they first came out. It was DCC ready, the light board in the tender has a receptacle for an eight-pin decoder plug. I converted it to sound by plugging in a WowSound decoder - with the separate "Keep Alive" unit plugged into the decoder, since as noted my early one doesn't pick up power from the tender trucks. (TCS does make a non-sound decoder with the Keep Alive built in, but their other decoders and the WowSound decoders have to have a separate unit plugged into it.)
Time to follow up on this decoder installation. I sent off the blown decoder to TCS and upgraded to a newer wow sound decoder. I replaced the blown LED's. I removed all the DC light boards etc and then double checked the frame was independent of the motor, which it was. New decoder installed with Keep Alive, and speaker installed. Not quite finished but close. Loco runs and sounds great.
Thanks for all the assistance with this project.
rrinkerPeople are throwing away tender pickups? The more pickups, the better, no such thing as too many
Just to clarify, the earliest run (or runs?) of the LL 0-8-0 only picked up power from the drivers. There was no power pickup from the tender trucks. This was changed in later runs, as not having tender pickup did cause problems.
That's how you install a decoder in those P2K locos, the 0-8-0 has the same 'board' my GP7s do. The wiring is all attached to a small board with the 8 pin socket, the 'board' with the direction/constant lighting diodes plugs in. Unplug that, plug in a decoder. The board not only service no purpose on DCC, it also can't be there at the same time as a decoder. These are the complete opposite of the typical factory DC lighting board where the wiring attaches to the board, and the board has an 8 pin or 9 pin socket fitted with a dummy plug. You remove the dummy plug and plug in a decoder, the board stays. Unless you're me, most of those factory boards are a glorious mess so I remove them. For modern decoders, especially sound, I would install one of the Nix Trains DecoderBuddy boards and then attach a 21 pin decoder. At least for locos where all the light wiring can be done in the shell - the DecoderBuddy boards come with a plug to connect the lights to which unplugs from the motherboard, so you cna easily remove the shell, no coming up with your own plug and socket system - it's built in. And they are cheap - while including the resistors needed for LEDs already soldered on the boards.
basementdweller Time to follow up on this decoder installation. I sent off the blown decoder to TCS and upgraded to a newer wow sound decoder. I replaced the blown LED's. I removed all the DC light boards etc and then double checked the frame was independent of the motor, which it was. New decoder installed with Keep Alive, and speaker installed. Not quite finished but close. Loco runs and sounds great. Thanks for all the assistance with this project.
Good to hear the project is turning out well
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
No idea why they would have discarded the light - unless they put a decoder in without resistors and blew it out the first time they ran it, but the headlight would have blown too.
https://tcsdcc.com/installation/ho-scale/1412
The factory 'board' is discarded in these installs. The lights, pickups, motor, are all connected to the 8 pin socket, not the 'board'. In my diesels with this same arrangemnt, I take it all out and solder the decoder wires. The lights are replaced with LEDs. The decoder has a 9 pin connector on it if it ever needs to be removed, but in 17 years I have never blown a decoder.
Since the WOW motherboards have resistors for LEDs already, might as well - however changing the one out in the loco might not be so easy. Depends on how they attached it and how hard it is to get the boiler off the chassis. The P2K diesels are easy, I don't even use fancy surface mount LEDs, a 3mm LED fits nicely in the slots in the frame where the old bulbs were.
Randy,
IIRC, the boiler plate pulls off the front of the switcher and the headlight is easily accessible. I do seem to remember that it did take some finagling to fit a resistor inside the boiler for an LED though. However, if one uses the TCS motherboard, that would be a moot point.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Lastspikemike tstage No, you do NOT need the TCS motherboard to install a WOW decoder into a locomotive. The motherboard does have the Keep Alive and resistors but you can always hard-wire the decoder and install your own resistors. After experimenting with SMD LEDs and 10K resistors in some brass locomotive headlights, I may begin using higher value resistors in my current and future decoder installations. Tom I was merely repeating the installation advice actually provided by TCS on their website. Obviously, this is not anyone's opinion, it is a statement of fact. Your argument, if any, is with TCS.
tstage No, you do NOT need the TCS motherboard to install a WOW decoder into a locomotive. The motherboard does have the Keep Alive and resistors but you can always hard-wire the decoder and install your own resistors. After experimenting with SMD LEDs and 10K resistors in some brass locomotive headlights, I may begin using higher value resistors in my current and future decoder installations. Tom
No, you do NOT need the TCS motherboard to install a WOW decoder into a locomotive. The motherboard does have the Keep Alive and resistors but you can always hard-wire the decoder and install your own resistors.
After experimenting with SMD LEDs and 10K resistors in some brass locomotive headlights, I may begin using higher value resistors in my current and future decoder installations.
I was merely repeating the installation advice actually provided by TCS on their website. Obviously, this is not anyone's opinion, it is a statement of fact. Your argument, if any, is with TCS.
TCS wants you to spend the extra money to buy their decoder 'kit' with the lightboard replacement, so that's what they try to steer you towards. However TCS decoders plug into a DCC receptacle just like any other decoder; you do NOT have to buy the entire 'kit' from TCS to use their WOWsound decoders. If you look at their catalogue / website, you'll see they offer WOWsound decoders by themselves, or with a separate Keep Alive you can plug into it.
tstage Randy, IIRC, the boiler plate pulls off the front of the switcher and the headlight is easily accessible. I do seem to remember that it did take some finagling to fit a resistor inside the boiler for an LED though. However, if one uses the TCS motherboard, that would be a moot point. Tom
Even if not using a motherboard or an LED ready decoder - still can put the resistor in the tender.
SeeYou190 - - I am just appalled at the cavalier way some hobbyists just butcher these now classic models Says everyone in the future that buys my "butchered" brass steamers after I had all my fun with them and moved onto the next world. -Kevin
- - I am just appalled at the cavalier way some hobbyists just butcher these now classic models
Says everyone in the future that buys my "butchered" brass steamers after I had all my fun with them and moved onto the next world.
-Kevin
rrinker tstage Randy, IIRC, the boiler plate pulls off the front of the switcher and the headlight is easily accessible. I do seem to remember that it did take some finagling to fit a resistor inside the boiler for an LED though. However, if one uses the TCS motherboard, that would be a moot point. Tom Even if not using a motherboard or an LED ready decoder - still can put the resistor in the tender. --Randy
You're absolutely right, Randy. I'm so accustom to adding them next to the LED that I sometimes forget that it can be added anywhere along the circuit.
I just bought one of these used with a SoundTraxx LC decoder installed. Any one know how to determine which production run it is and where to find a manual for it?
The LC series was pre-Tsunami which puts it back to the early 2000's. These decoders were the low cost (LC) alternative to the DSX series at the time. I have an LC installed in a shay and it runs pretty well considering the vintage and the ancient technology.
Very limited functions and passable but not great sound quality. You might find a manual at the soundtraxx site.
The decoder in your loco was most likely an aftrermarket install as I dont think P2K offered a sound equipped version of this - certainly not with an LC decoder...
Have fun,
trainnut1250The decoder in your loco was most likely an aftrermarket install as I dont think P2K offered a sound equipped version of this - certainly not with an LC decoder...
Guy,
The LL Proto 2000 0-8-0s did come with & w/o sound. ($100 difference in price, IIRC.) And I think the original sound versions were installed with QSI decoders but I'm not entirely sure.
Tom,
Yes, you are right. I think it depends on which production run we are talking about. I bought one from the initial Life-Like release that was in 2000. Those did not come with a sound option at that time. It looks like WalthersProto were using soundtraxx in 2014 (according to the search I did) so maybe Randy's loco is from that run.
You might be right about the initial run, Guy. I do recollect a subsequent run from LL that did come with sound - i.e. before their purchase by Walthers.
Okay, I just did a quick search. The enlarged view of the 3rd photo in this eBay sale confirms that in 2005 LL offered the 0-8-0 with the QSI decoder.
The first run 0-8-0's did not come with tender electrical pickups (I have one of those). Subsequent runs did.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
I purchased a pre-Walthers Proto 2000 SW8 with DCC/Sound switcher in 2006. When I bought it, Walthers had just announced their acquisition of Life Like. This switcher was equipped with a QSI, still in place, still working.
As an aside, that small unit came with one traction tire set. Why, I dunno, because it wouldn't run over some of my turnouts, but I swapped it out with a metal rimmed axle right away. Walthers was very good about it and sent me the axle for nothing. This would have been maybe three weeks later.
I don't know if my case is representative, but I have yet to lose a QSI decoder. I have lost a LokSound, the one that came in the PCM Y6b Mallet (BLI), but all my Tsunamis, QSIs, and earlier LokSound and Paragon 2 decoders still work very reliably.