Hello,
I have an old die-cast Bowser PRR L1 2-8-2 that I want to put DCC and sound in when I have the money for decoders. The engine still has what I think is the original motor, which is pre-flywheel. What would be the best replacement motor that is DCC-compatible, reasonably priced, and relatively simple to install?
Here's a photo of a similar motor I found online:
Thanks,
Victoria
P.S. This engine also has an issue with the trailing truck and the lead tender truck picking switches. Both problem trucks are in gauge the last I checked, just over a year ago, and the engine has been stored since then. My initial thought was that it was the track of the club layout I ran it on then, but the problem persisted on brand-new track when I set up a temporary test track. Any advice on this would also be appreciated.
I don't run DCC, so can't help there, but I know that Sagami and Mabuchi can motors are really good. (By the way, your photo of the motor didn't show up on here) I believe RR Mel uses the Mabuchi motors quite a bit, so maybe he'll respond with some ideas that might be of help to you. As for the the trailing truck and the lead tender truck picking the switches, could the problem be with the trucks themselves, and not anything like the wheels being out of gauge? Do both trucks pivot freely when turned by hand? Is there anything on the trucks or underside of the engine and tender like metal flashing from the manufacturing process or even wiring that might cause these problems? Without actually seeing the engine I can only guess, but it sounds to me like something on the truck frames is the problem. I've had problems with trucks snagging on the track, and the problem for me has almost always been metal or plastic flashing. If all else fails, I'd contact Bowser and see if they have any ideas on what the problem could be.
I would suggest using a Mabuchi SF-266SA motor. Small in size with great power, low current high performance can motor.As for a flywheel if your locomotive has good rail to locomotive power pickup a DCC decoder can be set for momentum, flywheel not needed.The Mabuchi motors are readily available off eBay. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=mabuchi+Sf-266sa&_sacat=0&_sop=15Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
RR_Mel I would suggest using a Mabuchi SF-266SA motor. Small in size with great power, low current high performance can motor.As for a flywheel if your locomotive has good rail to locomotive power pickup a DCC decoder can be set for momentum, flywheel not needed.The Mabuchi motors are readily available off eBay. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=mabuchi+Sf-266sa&_sacat=0&_sop=15Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
My concern is that the current draw of such an old motor would fry the decoder. I recently read about that in an old MR issue, so I think it's best to not take risks here. The motor could probably be repurposed for something once the layout is built.
Wolf359 I don't run DCC, so can't help there, but I know that Sagami and Mabuchi can motors are really good. (By the way, your photo of the motor didn't show up on here) I believe RR Mel uses the Mabuchi motors quite a bit, so maybe he'll respond with some ideas that might be of help to you. As for the the trailing truck and the lead tender truck picking the switches, could the problem be with the trucks themselves, and not anything like the wheels being out of gauge? Do both trucks pivot freely when turned by hand? Is there anything on the trucks or underside of the engine and tender like metal flashing from the manufacturing process or even wiring that might cause these problems? Without actually seeing the engine I can only guess, but it sounds to me like something on the truck frames is the problem. I've had problems with trucks snagging on the track, and the problem for me has almost always been metal or plastic flashing. If all else fails, I'd contact Bowser and see if they have any ideas on what the problem could be.
Both trucks do pivot freely. (As much as the trailing truck should be expected to.) Being a used engine, the previous owner could have done a shoddy repair. But when another club member looked at it, he claimed to see nothing wrong. When I get an opportunity, I will call Bowser and see what they have to say.
The lead truck on the L-1 should have a spring atop it, as there's not sufficient weight in it to track well without some downward pressure. The trailing truck has plenty of weight, so no spring is needed, but it might be wise to ensure that the wheel treads don't have an excessive build-up of gunk - most modellers are diligent in keeping the drivers' treads clean, but not so much with the wheels in the leading and trailing trucks.
Wayne
Victoria.
I have put decoders in brass and Bowser locomotives that use the same open frame motors. Isolating the brushes and replace the old iron magnet with super magnets will give you a motor that would draw around an amp when stalled and tremendous torque. With todays decoders with BEMF there is really no need for a flywheel. One of my locomotives with the open frame motor has an ESU micro sound decoder that is rated for 3/4 amp max and runs flawlessly.
The lead truck picking turnouts is nothing new. I add lead to the truck instead of using a spring. The tender truck could be warped or the draw bar is too short and the locomotive is pulling it off. Try swapping the trucks and while you have them off, place them on a section of track and see if you can rock them like a table that has one short leg.
Pete.
The Bowser PRR L-1 Mikado 2-8-2 came with a Pittman DC 71 motor. The DC 71 motor is rated at 9000 RPM with a .088”/2.25mm shaft. It has a .306”/7.7mm diameter worm gear with a .06”/1.5mm pitch.Locked rotor at 12 volts is slightly more than 2 amps so it would require a 2 to 2½ amp rated decoder.I have several older locomotives running the DC 71 motors operating off a 1½ amp decoders (MDC 0-6-0 & Shays), I just make sure they run freely with no binding and I never over load the locomotives. They draw between 600ma pulling a half dozen cars on level track and 900ma on my 3½% grades.I would check with Northwest Short Line for a replacement motor and worm gear. If you have or can get a hold of a Bowser HO Reference Manual there are several pages of parts breakdown drawings of the PRR L-1 2-8-2.If you can’t find one send me a forum message and I’ll email you the copied pages.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Pennsy_I1 Hello, I have an old die-cast Bowser PRR L1 2-8-2 that I want to put DCC and sound in when I have the money for decoders. The engine still has what I think is the original motor, which is pre-flywheel. What would be the best replacement motor that is DCC-compatible, reasonably priced, and relatively simple to install? Here's a photo of a similar motor I found online: Thanks, Victoria P.S. This engine also has an issue with the trailing truck and the lead tender truck picking switches. Both problem trucks are in gauge the last I checked, just over a year ago, and the engine has been stored since then. My initial thought was that it was the track of the club layout I ran it on then, but the problem persisted on brand-new track when I set up a temporary test track. Any advice on this would also be appreciated.
A new can motor is good, but they can be very difficult to install in these old locos. You will need to make a new motor mount to hold the motor in the correct position.
If it has a DC-71 motor, the easiest thing to do is try to rebuild the current motor to work with DCC. Bowser makes a fiber brush plate #1-22193 that isolates the right hand brush from the motor frame:
http://www.bowserorders.com/.sc/ms/dd/ee/14791324/Bowser%20FIBER%20BRUSH%20PLATE%20W%5E2FBEND%20for%20DCC
You can then solder the gray and orange leads to the motor brushes:
The other improvement involves replacing the magnet with supermagnets. Micromark, K&J, and CMS all sell supermagnets. I got 1/2 x 1/4 x 1/8 magnets, and stack them up. You will need a small shim for Bowser DC-71 motors:
That, and oiling the motor and cleaning the commutator, will make an old motor run much better.
Gary
RR_MelIf you have or can get a hold of a Bowser HO Reference Manual there are several pages of parts breakdown drawings of the PRR L-1 2-8-2.
They still have them posted on their website as a matter of fact. Here's a link to the reference manual: https://www.bowser-trains.com/docs/instructions/L-1%20Ref%20Pages.pdf and the full assembly instructions: https://www.bowser-trains.com/docs/instructions/100820.pdf
Just for reference, the maximum grade on my layout will be 3% and max train length 40 cars, with one or two pushers behind the cabin.
A single Bowser Northern 4-8-4 GS4 can tow 12 overweight passenger cars up my 3½% grades easily using the original Pitman DC-71 motor. They draw less than 1amp each. I normally run them in DC mode but over the years I have run them using DCC without a problem.I do not plan on replacing the Pitman DC-71 motors in either locomotive.I have wired all 70 or so of my locomotives for DCC, many of them with the original motors. I operate my layout dual mode, DC or DCC. I only have 13 decoders and swap them around. With my steam I have three tenders with sound decoders that will go behind any of my steam locomotives, all wired with a standard 8 pin NMRA male pigtail.The only steam locomotives I wouldn’t use a decoder on with the original motor are Rivarossis. The Rivarossi articulated motor draws close to one amp by it’s self and they are unpredictable. I’ve seen them at well over 1½ amp on DC with very little drawbar load on my grades. All my Rivarossi articulateds have single or dual can motors except three. Five have single Faulhaber 2224RS motors five have single or dual Canon EN22 motors three have dual Mabuchi SF-266 motors.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.