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Need wiring diagram for two turnouts with LED’s controlled by 1 DPDT toggle

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Need wiring diagram for two turnouts with LED’s controlled by 1 DPDT toggle
Posted by gdelmoro on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 10:46 AM

Maybe some of you electronically gifted people can help an electronically challenged model railroader?

I have two paralell tracks with two Atlas isufrog turnouts creating a crossover between the two tracks.

I want to control these with 1 DPDT Toggle and two Tortoise switch motors. I would like to switch the toggle one way and have both switcches throw simultaneously so that in one position trains on the mainline will continue on their respetive  course and when switched the othe way the crossover is active and trains are routed to the other mainline. 

I want three led's one one on the main and another on the other main and one in the middle showing that the crossover is active.

The tortoises are powered from a 12v Power Supply, LED's are 12v

Can anyone provide a wiring diagram?

Gary

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 11:13 AM

This will do two Tortoises from one DPDT toggle. Use pins 1 & 8 of each Tortoise.

I do not undeerstand your description of the LEDs.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 11:46 AM

I made a double crossover using Atlas turnouts but linkage driven by a single Tortoise.

 https://melvineperry.blogspot.com/2012/06/june-25-2012-my-double-crossover.html


You can use the Tortoise switch to operate the LEDs.



You can also use two wire bi-color (Red Green) LEDs in series with the Tortoise motor.



Mel


 
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Posted by gregc on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 11:58 AM

gdelmoro
I want three led's one one on the main and another on the other main and one in the middle showing that the crossover is active.

presuambly these are LED with resistors

wire them across the leads going to the tortois machines.   With the DPDT switch in one postion one of the leads will be +12V.  wire the LEDs you want to be ON with the anode (+ side) of the LED connected to that lead. 

wire the LEDs that you want to be on in the other switch position with the anode of LEDs connected to the other lead.

normally, LEDs without resistors can be wired in series with the switch motors because they draw ~10ma.   But it sounds like you have LEDs with resistors.  I'm also not sure if you can do that with two tortoise machines in parallel unless you only wire the LED in series with a single tortoise machine

 

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by gdelmoro on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 12:02 PM

Thanks Kevin, 

LEDs (3)

 with the turnouts aligned to the diverging route the LED on the control panel will be green and the LEDs on the mainlines (Straight routes) will be red indicating the turnouts will rout the train through the crossover from one mainline to the other.

with the turnouts aligned to rout the train straight through the mainlines will each have a green panel LED and the diverging route will be RED.

im trying to avoid having one led for each turnout (2) on the diverging route.

does that help?

Gary

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Posted by gregc on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 12:13 PM

guess not

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by freeway3 on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 12:58 PM

Not exactly what you're asking for re: the LEDs, but maybe a simpler option to consider. I use a bi-color LED (red/green, use the 2-lead type, not the 3-lead type) at the control panel for my crossover (and all my turnouts, for that matter).

I'll refer to Kevin's diagram above, which correctly shows how to wire 2 Tortises to 1 DPDT switch. Connect the green wire from the Tortises just before it reaches the DPDT to one lead on the LED, then the other lead of the LED to the DPDT, shown in Kevin's diagram on the lower right. You want to have the bi-color LED green when the crossover turnouts are both straight thru, and red when the turnouts send the train thru the crossover. If you get the opposite result, just swap the LED lead connections. You have a 50-50 chance of getting it right the first time! I found it helpful to connect the LED in with test leads before soldering.

As Greg mentions, and per Circuitron's own literature, resistors are not necessary, the resistance of the stall motor is plenty.

Ed

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Posted by gdelmoro on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 2:29 PM

Remove the 2 turnouts on the right and you're left with just 2 turnouts. That is teh configuration I'm trying to wire.

Your diagram shows exactly what I'm trying to do.  Either the straight through mainlines are alligned or the 2 turnout diverging routes are.

Gary

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Posted by gdelmoro on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 2:33 PM

Thanks Ed,  I'll draw it out and see if i can post it 

Gary

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Posted by gdelmoro on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 2:34 PM

I have bi-color LED's I can use

Gary

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Posted by floridaflyer on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 2:34 PM

Don't quite understand why the red light in the middle. I have two locations exactly like you are describing and green for thru, red for divergent. What does the middle light tell you that the other two do not? 

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Posted by gdelmoro on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 2:49 PM

RR_Mel

I made a double crossover using Atlas turnouts but linkage driven by a single Tortoise.

 https://melvineperry.blogspot.com/2012/06/june-25-2012-my-double-crossover.html


You can use the Tortoise switch to operate the LEDs.



You can also use two wire bi-color (Red Green) LEDs in series with the Tortoise motor.



Mel


 
My Model Railroad  
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 

 

 

Thanks Mel

That lower wiring diagram is how i wired the hole layout.

When I wanted to use 1 DPDT to cotrol 2 Tortoise yet only use 3 (bi-color-2prong) LED's with the center one coming on when both turnouts are switched to the diverging route I was not sure how to wire it.

Gary

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Posted by gdelmoro on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 2:54 PM

floridaflyer

Don't quite understand why the red light in the middle. I have two locations exactly like you are describing and green for thru, red for divergent. What does the middle light tell you that the other two do not? 

 

On all my control panels I have turnouts depicted with LEDs indicating (green for the route direction and red for the other direction. Just tying to keep the indicators the same.

Gary

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Posted by freeway3 on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 3:03 PM

Here you go, I just edited Kevin's sketch.

I'm also a little confused on you wanting to use 3 LEDs. You just need 1 bi-color at the control panel, next to the toggle. Green for normal route, red for diverging. For a crossover, green for both tracks straight thru, red for cross. Or am I missing something?

Ed

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Posted by freeway3 on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 3:08 PM

Like so?

Ed

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Posted by peahrens on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 3:29 PM

SeeYou190

This will do two Tortoises from one DPDT toggle. Use pins 1 & 8 of each Tortoise.

I do not undeerstand your description of the LEDs.

-Kevin

 

I have crossovers where I use a single bi-color LED at the DPDT that shows green when the turnouts are set for mainline and red for crossing over.  

 20200603_154226 by Paul Ahrens, on Flickr

But I take it you want to use 3 bi-color LEDs, as a choice.  No issue.  I see 2 ways you might do that:

1.  You could use the LEDs in series in the wiring to the Torti, without resistors.  Each LED will use about 2 of the 12 available volts.  With my single LED, I just put it on one of the DPDT output terminals to the Tortoise(s).  If the colors are backward, I either swapped the wires at the DPDT or at the Tortoise(s). 

But with 3 LEDs it gets interesting.  If you put one in the lead to each of the 2 Torti, then the LED would use 2 volts and leave 10 volts for the Tortoise.  Each would move similarly.  The issue would be the 3rd LED.  If put in one of the DPDT output wires, then each Tortoise will see (because of 2 LEDs in series to it) about 8 volts, moving slower than your other Torti, but surely ok.  You would have to get the polarities of each correct.  This would be a variation of Freeway3's diagram, adding an additional LED to each Tortoise wire after the split to the Torti.  The common LED would need to be the reverse direction of the other 2 LEDs.

Of course, you could put all 3 LEDs (one reversed from the other two) in series on a DPDT output, but that would mean the Torti would see only about 6 volts, moving slower still (if 6v is sufficient?).  I would not suggest that.

2.  If concerned about the voltage at the Tortoise and switching speed, you could just add the 3 LEDs (with 1K resistors), in parallel, across the DPDT output wires (before the split to the Torti).  The Torti would see the full 12v, as would each of the 3 LED/resistor jumpers.  Note that 2 LEDs would be in one direction and the 3rd in the opposite direction (polarity wise) so the mainline indicators and crossover indicator would be opposite.

I note that the Tortoise instructions suggest a 9-12v DC power supply, and indicate that less than 12v (at the Tortoise) simply slows the movement.  I suspect that 8v will work just dandy, but uncertain (per the instructions) about 6v.  Just a matter of interest as I would not suggest putting the 3 LEDs in series when you can have a 2-LED path to each Tortoise, with 8v Tortoise movement speed, if you want to go with option 1.

I think I have this right.  I will stand corrected if I got myself mixed up.  Sorry I don't know how to draw the above options.

 

 

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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Posted by gdelmoro on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 3:42 PM

Back to my original plea for help, can anyone provide a wiring diagram?

I know its is explained in the responses but a visual old really help.

thanks

Gary

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Posted by peahrens on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 4:07 PM

gdelmoro

Back to my original plea for help, can anyone provide a wiring diagram?

I know its is explained in the responses but a visual old really help.

thanks

 

Option 1:  LEDs in series, without resistors, for about 8v at Tortoise:

 Tortoise by Paul Ahrens, on Flickr

Option 2: LEDs in parallel (w/resistors), 12v at Tortoise

 Tortoise2 by Paul Ahrens, on Flickr

Paul

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Posted by gregc on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 4:20 PM

gdelmoro
The tortoises are powered from a 12v Power Supply, LED's are 12v

Can anyone provide a wiring diagram?

assuming 12V LEDs means LEDs with resistors.   if so, they can be wired across DPDT switch or motors whereever convenient.

LEDs can be wired in pairs, sharing a resistor (or not) 

as I said ealier, not sure if two motors wired in parallel will draw more than 20ma and damage LED in series with motoes

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 4:51 PM

gdelmoro

Back to my original plea for help, can anyone provide a wiring diagram?

I know its is explained in the responses but a visual old really help.

thanks

 

OK Gary, how about this.




Mel


 
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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 5:01 PM

What is the learning curve on your CAD program and which one is it, Mel?

Henry

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 5:44 PM

 This is what my panel looked like:

The middle toggle controlled a crossover. One way, it went straight, the two LEDs on the straight tracks were lit. The other way, it crossed over, the center LED on the diagonal was lit.

Wiring was just what Mel posted. Or at least electrically equivalent - the wires went from the toggle to the LEDs and then out to the two Tortoises. 

If the turnouts don;t go the right way, swap the wires on 1 and 8 of one of the Tortoises and they will be in proper sync, either both set straight or both set to cross.

                                    --Randy

 


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Posted by gdelmoro on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 6:01 PM

Thanks Randy

Gary

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Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 6:02 PM

BigDaddy

What is the learning curve on your CAD program and which one is it, Mel?

 

 I have no idea Henry. 

I started out with Pro Design I back in 1984.  Pro Design V (American Small Business) was bought by DesignCAD in the Early 90s.  I took the upgrades as they were available.  DesignCAD became IMSI Design in the early 2000s and it is now TurboCAD.

The only learning curve I can remember was DesignCAD 6 going from DOS based to Windows 95, that was a biggie.  By sticking with the upgrades as they became available there hasn’t been a huge learning curve after 95.

DesignCAD 22 is much easier than AutoCAD and still very powerful.  The price is right, $50.  I think every CAD program has a stiff learning curve for a beginner.

After the Windows 95 upgrade every upgrade has been simple.  Having worked with my CAD for 36 years it’s pretty easy to do almost anything.


Mel



 
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Posted by floridaflyer on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 6:12 PM

Freeway 3's  diagram hits the nail on the head. One bi-colored led, green for thru, red for divergent mounted next to one of the turnouts. If you did want another led next to the second turnout, wire it in line just like the first led.   

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Posted by gdelmoro on Thursday, June 4, 2020 5:40 AM

thanks Mel. That works!

Gary

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Posted by gdelmoro on Thursday, June 4, 2020 5:41 AM

Thanks Greg and Paul!

Gary

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Posted by peahrens on Thursday, June 4, 2020 7:35 AM

gregc
as I said ealier, not sure if two motors wired in parallel will draw more than 20ma and damage LED in series with motors

Greg, my crossovers are wired like that; i.e., 2 parallel Tortoises with one bi-color LED off the DPDT, in series with the Torti.  The LED is an All Electronics bi-color but I do not know it's specs.  It has worked fine (8 yrs.) but I do not know if it is close to it's max current.  Just for info.

Paul

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, June 4, 2020 8:08 AM

 They won't be over current, the Tortoise draws a max of 15-18ma which is below the maximum 20-25ma of most any LED. That's why you can just wire the LEDs in series with the Tortoise, no resistors needed. The Tortoise is the resistor.

                                  --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by gdelmoro on Thursday, June 4, 2020 10:23 AM

Mel on both tortoise 1 & 2 where you show (2) that's really terminal 8 on the tortoise, correct?

Gary

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