Has anyone ever taken the speaker leads from a DCC decoder and fed them through a real amplifier into good quality speakers to see what the sound from one of these really sounds like?
Is the sound quality really very good in the decoder, or is it just good enough to get was is possible from a tiny HO scale speaker?
Sorry if this has been discussed before. I do not follow the DCC forum closely.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I hooked a MRC 1731 Steam Sound Decoder directly to a JBL speaker array (16Ω) and was amazed at how good they sound. I didn’t go through the Amp the decoder drove the speaker at a fairly good listing level.That was the first MRC 1700 series decoder I bought and haven’t tried any since. It convinced me that the MRC 1731s were the way to go for my steam. The 1” full range speakers I use in my diesels locomotives (567) sound very good with the 1730 decoder. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Deoends on the decoder, but the top tier most recent ones all store the sounds at the same bit rate and sample size as CDs, just in mono. And the sounds are captured by people using decent quality recording equipment.
Even using a larger speaker is enough to get better sound. Physics being physics, you simply cannot get room shaking lows from a speaker the size of a sugar cube. Some of the newer ones are very excellent, in that they can reproduce fairly low audible signals, but they aren't even going to make the room shake. That's what BLI tries to do with their Paragon 3 decoders and Rolling Thunder - the lows are transmitted to a stationary subwoofer.
Things have come a long way since the early days where the sounds were all synthesized - like the change in music from FM synthesis to modern digitally sampled keyboards. With a good source, it's all in the output stage as far as how good it actually sounds.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I have watched some of my layout videos on my big screen with the big sound. I have two big 18" subwoofers that go down to 16Hz. The layout videos sound way better on that, not great but way better than the computer.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
I did some years ago with a audio transformer from Radio Shack. Used the 8 ohm side connected to the decoder and the thousand ohm to the audio system. Not bad.
Rich.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I just connected a quality 10 inch speaker straight to a Loksound decoder and was totally amazed what came out of it. The amp is rated at 2 watts, which surprisingly enough, creates a lot of sound ! All the low frequencies are there, just need a good enough speaker to reproduce it.
A friend of mine has an outdoor layout (ride on). He uses a Loksound decoder in it fed through a 200 watt car stereo amplifier using 4 8-inch speakers. You'd swear the real thing was going by ! It has one powerful horn !
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Mark R.I just connected a quality 10 inch speaker straight to a Loksound decoder and was totally amazed what came out of it.
You are going to need a Schnabel car for that.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddyYou are going to need a Schnabel car for that.
You are also going to be pulling track nails with the speaker magnet!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Other forum, back about 10 years ago, fellow had several Soundtraxx Tsunami decoders going thru a very basic multyplexer (home brewed) to an under table speakers. This was his solution to Soundtraxx Surroundsound.
Soundtraxx web site has a tech note #11 that shows what is required to connect decoder to home sound system. I would provide a link, but the last one got removed by moderation.
Marc
OK, this all sounds good.
So here is my dumb idea for a wireless DC throttle with sound... will this work?
Can I get a wireless DCC controller, one good sound decoder, and wire the motor connections to the track and the speaker outputs into my amplifier? I would leave all the lighting wires disconnected.
Then could I run a DC train on the rails, and blast the sound through good speakers and shake ther singles on the roof.
How would I program it? That should only need to be done once.
I am leaning towards the Kato system with sound and a Smartphone controller, but DCC seems to have more features.
If all you want is the prime mover sounds - because triggering the sounds like the horn on a dual mode decoder when running on DCC usually includes doing things like flipping the direction switch back and forth. Which, when the decodrer is installed in a loco, doesn't cause an issue, but if the power is hooked to both a decoder and an ordinary DC loco, the DC loco is going to dance around.
Plus, unless the S&G is such a high class railroad that even frieght trains regularly run 70+ MPH, most of the time you would be running trains around with no sound at all. Sound decoders need the track voltage to get high enough to power the electronics (not an issue with DCC where the track is always powered), so generally they keep power from going to the motor until some point above that, so you can have a stopped loco with idling sounds.
Peoople have done this with DCC, instead of fitting sound decoders in each loco. The biggest problem is that the sound is highly localized, and also all locos will sound the same - having a Baldwin sound like an EMD might be plausible for a 60's era rebuild, but a 50's RS3 rolling along with the sounds of an EMD 567 is just plain wrong.
MRC has made several DC sound units that accept a track input to control the prome mover, but otherwise have their own horn/whistle buttons and such. Not sure if the wuality of the earlier ones is worth putting through a good speaker, their older sound decoder certainly aren't, but the newer ones may be better.
KevinI have a MRC 7000 Sound and Power and it works pretty good. I can adjust the chuff rate for steam, the diesel sound is just a diesel sound to me??. I rarely use it for diesel sound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQQiCjsN_7AI run my layout dual mode, DC or DCC. My MRC Prodigy Advance² slides under the 7000.I wired my control panel so that when I turn on the 7000 the accessory out put pulls in a relay that switches the track power from the Prodigy to the 7000 for DC operation. The relay is 12 DC with a bridge rectifier to work off the AC accessory terminals of the 7000.The 7000 has an internal 1 watt amplifier that will drive an 8Ω speaker. I put a pair of 4Ω 8" speakers in series, one in each rear corner of my 10’ x 14’ layout. The 1 watt amp does pretty good, any louder in my space would be too loud.It does sound pretty good but it ain’t even close to DCC sound from a locomotive.Side note, my great grand kids like the 7000 sound better than the DCC sound.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
rrinker If all you want is the prime mover sounds - because triggering the sounds like the horn on a dual mode decoder when running on DCC usually includes doing things like flipping the direction switch back and forth. Which, when the decodrer is installed in a loco, doesn't cause an issue, but if the power is hooked to both a decoder and an ordinary DC loco, the DC loco is going to dance around.
I would not have a decoder in the DC locomotive. I would run the wires from the decoder that normally go to the motor to the track to provide the train voltage.
Wires for sound from the decoder will go to the amplifier.
I would really prefer to use the pro-DCC controller that looks like an EMD control stand for operation over the smart phone the Kato system uses.
RR_MelI have a MRC 7000 Sound and Power and it works pretty good. I can adjust the chuff rate for steam, the diesel sound is just a diesel sound to me??.
Unfortunately that system will not give me wireless walk around control.
Are you talking Proto-Throttle ?
For that you will need a WiFi connection, a DCC System, a decoder capable of driving a few amps on the rails without exploding and, oh yes, sound capable.
Your decoder will be function limited. ie: no control over lights. Some features will not receive the proper feed back from the decoder so things like DDE, will not work properly. Anything that relies on BEMF will be dazed and confused and BEMF is a big part of the features in modern decoders.
The Kato system you mention is bluetooth based. Proto-Throttle does not talk Bluetooth and they have no plans of develloping a BT Proto-Throttle as that market is too small. They were asked.
Add the fact you are talking $$$$$ to run ONE engine.
SeeYou190 I would not have a decoder in the DC locomotive. I would run the wires from the decoder that normally go to the motor to the track to provide the train voltage.
Be prepared to replace that decoder every time you have a short on the rails (derailment, run up against a thrown turnout, oops I left my screwdriver on the track, etc).
DCC decoders have little or no tolerance for shorted motor outputs.
And that applies even to G scale decoders than can drive 5 amps or more. You MIGHT get away with a G scale decoder, using a tail light bulb in series with it, so a short is limiteds to the 3 amps or so of the bulb.
It's been tried, as a way to run DC locos on DCC, or some similar reason. Usually ends in failure because of the decoders blowing, or unsatisfacotry response as the BEMF signals get corrupted by all the wiring between the decoder and the motor in the actual loco.
UpNorthAre you talking Proto-Throttle? For that you will need a WiFi connection, a DCC System, and a decoder. Your decoder will be function limited. <SNIP> Add the fact you are talking $$$$$ to run ONE engine.
Yes, that is the throttle I want to use. The money is not that much higher than the Kato system. I really want mind-blowing sound (from a real amplifier and floor standing loudspeakers), and the proto-throttle is a great little item.
StevertBe prepared to replace that decoder every time you have a short on the rails <SNIP>. DCC decoders have little or no tolerance for shorted motor outputs.
That could be a deal breaker. I did not know these decoders were so fragile.
rrinkerYou MIGHT get away with a G scale decoder, using a tail light bulb in series with it, so a short is limiteds to the 3 amps or so of the bulb. It's been tried, as a way to run DC locos on DCC, or some similar reason. Usually ends in failure.
Thank you, that is good to know. Since it has been tried before, and not worked, I do not want to add my name to the list of the "Tried And Failed" group.
It sounds like it is best to stick with Kato's product as planned.
Mark R. I just connected a quality 10 inch speaker straight to a Loksound decoder and was totally amazed what came out of it. The amp is rated at 2 watts, which surprisingly enough, creates a lot of sound ! All the low frequencies are there, just need a good enough speaker to reproduce it. A friend of mine has an outdoor layout (ride on). He uses a Loksound decoder in it fed through a 200 watt car stereo amplifier using 4 8-inch speakers.
A friend of mine has an outdoor layout (ride on). He uses a Loksound decoder in it fed through a 200 watt car stereo amplifier using 4 8-inch speakers.
Hi Mark, I'm curious how you and your friend connected the "stationary" sound decoder to your sound systems. Did you or your friend use a resistor to simulate a motor load (seems it may be necessary with some decoders)? Did you or your friend use a transformer (or other impedance matching device) to drop the speaker level output to a line level output? If so, what transformer rating was used?
The reason I ask is that I have not yet found someone who has used a Loksound decoder with a sound system (active speakers/headphones). There are reports of other decoder brands, but those decoders may have different requirements than the Loksound decoders. Some I'm curious what is needed to use a Loksound decoder with headphones.
Thank-you!