Must the base station be out in the open or can it be mounted below the layout?
It works a whole lot better if there is nothing between the antenna of the radio base and your throttle.
If we're talking a 4x8, you probably can stick it underneath. But if you have a whole room or basement, it needs to be out in the open. Wood, metal, and humans block radio signals.
One suggestion is to mount it upside-down from the ceiling (antenna facing down).
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The NCE radio base station is a separate device from the command station. The add-on repeaters are similar. Both are connected by network cables to the command station, so they can be placed to ensure a good signal. As with any radio system, the higher the better with the antenna. Depending on how crowded a layout might be, the materials used in construction, etc, placing the antenna down low accentuates their propensity to limit range. As Randy noted, a ceiling mount is optimal with the antenna placed hanging down as this minimizesthe blocking effects of stuff in the layout room itself.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Thanks for your help. Everyting I read is new info for me.
Thanks Mike. I'm in Peoria, a few miles away. I have a "U" shaped layout. I dont have a lot of room in the middle of the 'U'. I dont want to have to operate in the middle. Thank for the help.
I have a CVP wireless system for my Lenz DCC. I had a 24x24 foot room, and the wireless receiver was mounted beneath the layout. I never had any problems with signal strength, reception or interference. If I were building anything bigger or felt like doing more wiring, I might put it up higher, but as is the system worked very reliably.
Since Lenz does not make a wireless throttle, I am grateful to CVP for filling that gap.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
isn't it just plugged into the cabbus like any other cab?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
My layout occupies a 42' x 25' space, eesentially forming an L-shape. I have an NCE wireless 5 amp system with the base station/antenna mounting upside down on the ceiling. It is most responsive when the wireless cab is aimed in the direction of the antenna.
Rich
Alton Junction
If you plan to operate from around the outside of the U, the best place for the RB02 would be in the middle of the U. Shortest distance and most visibility to all edges of the U.
gregc isn't it just plugged into the cabbus like any other cab?
richhotrain gregc isn't it just plugged into the cabbus like any other cab? Yes. Rich
Yes.
Yes, it is. Thing is, if you do have a system of cabled UTP throttle connections on the fascia of the layout (the most common location, but maybe people stick them elsewhere, too) you are best off routing the cable up the ceiling to install the radio box(es) up there.
Mister Beasley had good results with his radio set under the layout. That can avoid some extra work and cabling. I don't doubt that, as layouts vary greatly in terms of size, materials, and use cases, but if doing that doesn't work well (and it often doesn't) then moving things up higher is what you do. This works generally for radio systems.
In my case, the layout is in two rooms next to each other. I have two radio boxes, one in each room. They attach to the end of the daisy-chained UTP net cabling. Never a problem with reception.
My antenna is under the benchwork against the end wall of my house. I did a test and at 100' away at the other end of the house it still worked perfectly.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
BATMAN My antenna is under the benchwork against the end wall of my house. I did a test and at 100' away at the other end of the house it still worked perfectly.
Not at all surprising. It often does and this can be determined, in part, by simply testing to see it it will as you install, assuming there's a layout in place that the radio system is being added to.
Many factors affecting reception/transmitting can be taken into account in planning such a radio system and can be veified as you proceed with construction. And if the only operators would be you and maybe one or two others, that would be all that needs attention.
However, if you're planning a larger system where multiple operators would normally be present, than you can't really account for this easily by verifying how it works during construction, as you're unlikely to have that number of warm bodies in the room until that first big ops session...and that would be a bad time to find out that things don't work so well because of the potential for human interaction to interfere with the radio links.
Other factors that are typilcally present can also account for substantial differences in radio effectiveness. Whether the throttles have internal or external antennas can make a substantial difference at times, although they often preform equally well in many installations.
Then there's the local RF environment. Rural locations are often better in this regard, as very little radio use is nearby. Exceptions to this can include a location that just happens to be near a transmitter site. In urban locations, RF is often dense. This raises the overall noise floor and can act as a limiting factor on reception. While external to the train room, it's a factor you can't really do anything about, other than to improve your reception by going with strategies like moving your equipment higher.
An example of these factors interacting is when I operate from time to time on the layout of a certain well-known operations columnist at a competeing publication who uses NCE. He has a large layout (not surprisingly) in a basement space shaped like an E that has come along nicely with the help of some friends since a move here several years ago. Pack in couple dozen operators and things get interestingly cozy sometimes. There are multiple repeaters mounted on the ceiling. Everything should be good right? It mostly is, except for a few locations where things are iffy from time to time, despite being in easy sight of the ceiling-mounted repeater. Thing is his subdivision is just across the highway from the airport, which has radios, instrument landing systems, etc that could account for the variable and sometimes frstrating need to move a couple of feet even though you recall things working fine just a minute ago.
Even if it could be confirmed that the airport is the issue, an expensive and technically challenging proposition, nothing can be done. The airport takes precdence and as NCE reminds, "communication intergrity in the presence of interference can not be guaranteed." Our radio throttles (all of them, not just NCE) are FCC Part 15 devices...
"Operation is subject to the following conditions (1) this device may not cause harmful interference and (2) this device must accept any interfernce received, including interference that may cause undesired operation."
As I mentioned earlier, the NCE radio boxes are daisy-chained into the UTP network cable. Depending on your layout, even if you go with a radio link located under the layout, it's worthwhile when setting it up to consider that you could have problems with reception down the road. You may want to plan your cabling so that it terminates in a spot where it can easily be continued up to the ceiling later on just in case you find a need to improve things down the road.
if reception is better when both antennas are more parallel to one another, it may make sense to put the RB02 closer to the floor than up high where the antennas are more perpendicular to one another
My layout is located in the basement and is 24x36ft. My NCE antenna sits on a shelf beneath the laout. I have yet to experience a "dead spot" I've also tried it from the 1st and 2nd floors of the house and from outside the house. Always responded perfectly. Great product...
Mark B.
Mark B My layout is located in the basement and is 24x36ft. My NCE antenna sits on a shelf beneath the laout. I have yet to experience a "dead spot" I've also tried it from the 1st and 2nd floors of the house and from outside the house. Always responded perfectly. Great product... Mark B.
No- just the regular antenna.
In that case, the reception quality of your RB02 is impressive, no dead spots from the 1st and 2nd floors of the house and from outside the house.
There is such a thing as too many repeaters. Friend of mine has a large, two room layout. He was having trouble with his NCE system. After consultation with NCE he removed all but two of the repeaters and his issues went away. Turns out that the extra repeaters were interfering with each other.
maxman There is such a thing as too many repeaters. Friend of mine has a large, two room layout. He was having trouble with his NCE system. After consultation with NCE he removed all but two of the repeaters and his issues went away. Turns out that the extra repeaters were interfering with each other.
quality of reception often depends on the environment, other RF activity in the area
there are requirements for out of band transmission levels. RF transmission at nearby frequencies will bleed into a frequency/band your equipment is operating on. This background noise can affect the operation of your device (i.e. signal/noise ratio)
The PSR club stopped using wireless NCE devices because they became unreliable; sometime working sometimes not. I brought a spectrum analyzer from work and configured it to capture the max levels in the unlicensed ISM band NCE operates in. Things looked fine and then there was a burst of interference for several seconds (~10). Have no idea of the source, but that was the problem. Nothing we could do about it (it's an unlicensed band).
it's too bad there isn't something you could use to test your environment before purchasing such equipment.
Downside of them using the 914MHz band. With 2.4GHz there are plenty of ways to test without expensive equipment.
There are just too many factors that can affect the signal. Using old style wire screen scenery base is almost certain to attenuate radio signals. Also if you house uses plaster and lathe walls instead of drywall. My house has a strange mesh impregnated extra thick drywall finish on the walls - my wifi is horrible, drops off VERY sharply outside the room where the router is. But go through the floor down to the basement and there's still a strong signal. Nothing but ordinary wood between the router and the device in that case.
Mine is wireless.
I worried about reception because I have a full height backdrop that separates the layout. Put the antenna on the ceiling near the command station on one edge of the 17 x 26 foot space; went to the other side of the basement outside the layout room and everything worked fine much to my relief.