Hello group,
Newbie question. I just bought a proto 2000 series GP9 ll locomotive. I put it all together and tried it on my old track. Unfortunately all i get is a buzzing sound, but the lights work. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I just started building my train set after it sat idle for over 20 years. So i am new at this stuff and have no idea on to convert to DCC. thank you
Is the engine decoder-equipped or not? And is the layout powered by DC or DCC? I would guess you put a DC locomotive (no decoder) on a DCC layout, but without more information, it's hard to say for sure.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
It does sound like you put a DC loco on a track with DCC on it. The lights will work and the motor armateur buzz at the DCC frequency.
The loco needs a decoder. You should study the basics of DCC.
https://dccwiki.com/
Here is an install for what might be your loco. Not sure you loco has an eight pin socket. No idea of your experience. Do not use a soldering gun, only a soldering pencil.
https://tcsdcc.com/installation/ho-scale/1408
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
to the forum
Always give us more information than you think we need.
MountainSub i am new at this stuff and have no idea on to convert to DCC
From that I have to guess that you aren't using DCC, but your old controller. What controller are you using, have you cleaned the track or is 20 years of grunge on the rails? Do you have any other locos that run or do not run on this track?
Your title says new loco, but is it an Ebay purchase or from a retail store? Phase 2 GP's from Ebay, might be have dried up grease in the gears or broken gears. Both are easy and inexpensive fixes but could explain buzzing and no movement.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
From what I've seen, on a search, I don't think this is DCC, unless the previous owner converted it. The OP says he put it all together, which also means puttung the shell on, so I'm thinking this is more of an "old grease in the truck gears" situation.
Walthers says this is "Dicountinued" so I'm not sure of the manufacture date.
I would remove the shell, and turn the fly wheels by hand, to see if everything moves, clean the wheels, and track, and try it with the shell off.
If it still doesn't actually run, then I'd clean the old grease from the gears and the worm gear, reassemble, and try it again.
A link to a DCC install on a P2K GP9, phase II. You get a good look at what the factory board looks like, and how to convert to DCC:
Mike.
PS. By the way Mountain sub, welcome to the forums.
My You Tube
OK so i moved the fly wheel and the locomotive slowly moves, so does this mean i should take it apart and clean it?. This is a brand new locomotive but im guessing it has been sitting for a long time for everything to dry up? Also how do you take the wheight off to get in for a closer look?
Thanks guys! You have been very helpfull
There should be a small screw on each end inboard of where the coupler was mounted. On the bottom are 2 screws by the motor mount. Remove these as well and the weight should come apart. Joe
MountainSubThis is a brand new locomotive but im guessing it has been sitting for a long time for everything to dry up?
That's whats going on. I think these were new in maybe 2003? maybe 05? If it with DCC and sound it might be newer. Kind of guessing at the age, but they have been around a while.
The fuek tank should snap off, giving you access to the screws that ba&prr mentions.
You have to remove the trucks, remove the clips that hold the truck halves together, carefully seperate the halves, and clean out all of the old grease, and replace with LaBelles 106, sparingly. The gears too, they come right out.
Another thing to watch for is cracked wheel/axle gears. They are easy to get to. Support the loco in an upside down position, and the bottom truck covers will come off, with gentle prying use a fine blade screw driver. With the cover off, you pick each axle out of the truck.
Hold on to the little gear in the middle, and you should NOT be able to turn the wheel on either side. The axles are two seperate pieces that fit into that gear, for seperation of (+) and (-) on the electrical pick up.
If one of the wheels turns by hand, the gear is more than likely cracked. This happened to many P2K's. Actually, it was quite common. You can see it with a magnifying glass.
If you find a cracked gear, you can get replacement axles through Walthers or Athearn. When these first came out, Walthers would give you free replacement axles, but that ended some time ago.
Hello All,
mbinsewi...replace with LaBelles 106, sparingly.
If you can't find Labelle grease, white lithium grease; available at auto parts and big box stores will suffice.
Again...use sparingly.
I use a toothpick for application.
For removing the old grease isopropyl alcohol, denatured alcohol, or citrus-based cleaners work best and are the least toxic options.
If you don't want to explode the trucks over the fear of reassembly, I recommend CRC Electronic Parts Cleaner.
This is an aerosol that comes with a spray tube for pinpoint applications.
Remove the trucks, hold them in a paper towel or other absorbent material, and with the spray tube in place shoot in the cleaner.
I would use Nitrile- -solvent resistant gloves. Repeated exposure to cleaners can cause skin problems in the future.
This method is not as through as completely disassembling the entire truck and gear tower. If you are not confident in going that deep for cleaning this method will suffice.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
MountainSub OK so i moved the fly wheel and the locomotive slowly moves, so does this mean i should take it apart and clean it?. This is a brand new locomotive but im guessing it has been sitting for a long time for everything to dry up? Also how do you take the wheight off to get in for a closer look? Thanks guys! You have been very helpfull
Simon
MountainSubi moved the fly wheel and the locomotive slowly moves,
And it would move slowly because it's ultimately connected to the wheels and we can't ever spin it as fast as the motor. Since you are this deep into it, cleaning the gears doesn't take very long.
Those teeny tiney screwdrivers are useful in gently prying apart plastic bits. Do not lose any parts. In fact take some pictures with you cell phone as you procede.
If you end up needing to replace the wheel gears, you will need the NMRA Standards Gauge, which you will need sooner or later anyway.
Nothing to add on recommended cleaning and lubing advice.
It that doesn't do it, we are going to need to know about track voltage.
New-from-the-box engines are often stiff. I generally do a break-in run, 15 min. fwd at about 3/4 full speed, then 15 min. in reverse. That often makes a big difference by itself.
Since it sounds like it is DC, mount it upside down in a cradle and put a nine volt battery across the wheels. It should run fairly fast if ok. I have done that in the past as a quick test.
I also have a wheel cradle that allows the wheels to turn. It mounts on the track. The loco stays right in front of me. with the shell off i can move the flywheels.
Ok everything is cleaned up and lubed nicely. Took it for a test run and long behold im getting a thumping sound. Flipped it upside down and checked the gears and looks like it needs to be replaced.... For the love of all god alimghty . I get that the locomotive has been sitting around forever but cracked gears? How frustrating this engine has become. My local hobbie store does not carry locomotive gears. Is there a website i can order from, hopefully a Canadain site?
Again guys thank you for your help!!
Oh that happened to me once... I understand your pain. Luckily, it's an easy fix once you get the part. You can order from the Walthers site for that part. You can also send an email or phone a hobby shop "near" you in Canada. It's the kind of part many hobby shops have, but don't always advertise. Are you out West? In Ontario?
MountainSubOk everything is cleaned up and lubed nicely. Took it for a test run and long behold im (SIC) getting a thumping sound. Flipped it upside down and checked the gears and looks like it needs to be replaced.... For the love of all god alimghty(SIC)...
Unfortunately, cracked gears seem to be the predominant cause of loss of sleep, premature baldness- -tearing your hair out, marital disharmonies and other maladies associated with this hobby.
A while back I sent in a Bachmann USRA 0-6-0 steamer in because the side rods were bent and tearing up the steam pistons.
The out of warranty repairs were done, money paid, loco returned, only to find out later that the front pair of drivers had a cracked gear that was causing the binding of the side rods.
I sent it back to Bachmann and was delivered to them just as the COVID-19 lockdowns were enacted.
The service department is "closed until COVID-19 restrictions have been lifted".
At this point, I don't know the repair status of my unit.
I completely sympathize with your frustrations!
The only Canadian company I know of that might be able to help or provide a solution is Rapido.
MountainSub Ok everything is cleaned up and lubed nicely. Took it for a test run and long behold im getting a thumping sound. Flipped it upside down and checked the gears and looks like it needs to be replaced.... For the love of all god alimghty . I get that the locomotive has been sitting around forever but cracked gears? How frustrating this engine has become. My local hobbie store does not carry locomotive gears. Is there a website i can order from, hopefully a Canadain site? Again guys thank you for your help!!
You could check with NWSL. They carry a large supply of gears. No idea what they might have for your loco. You can email them.
Under new management. Difficult time. I know.
https://nwsl.com/collections/gears-replacement-upgrade
You can look at the old catalog also. I have bought from them over the years.
Good luck.
Cracked gears are a very common problem on old Proto 2000 GP9's. Even ones that were never "run", but sat in the box for years.
The solution is:
Either change the gears by pulling the wheels apart and replacing [just] the gear, or, replace the entire wheelset.
I believe the gears can be changed for Athearn part #ATH 60024. The wheelsets can be replaced with Athearn part #ATH 40028. Walthers sells replacement wheelsets too, I think they are part #920-584408.
You will want to disassemble the trucks completely for this, and clean out all the dried up "gunk/grease" that was put in at the factory. Sounds like you may have done this already.
As far as converting a (former Lifelike) Proto 2000 GP to dcc, some of these are easily convertible, this is immediately apparent if the engine has an 8-pin "harness" that plugs into the light board below it. You can buy a replacement for the light board and plug the harness back in.
If it doesn't have the 8-pin harness, things can get more complicated...
OldEnginemanYou will want to disassemble the trucks completely for this,
It sounds like the OP has cleaned and relubed everything. The wheels with the gears are an easy install, just the bottom truck cover needs to come off.
In my earlier post, since he had the trucks apart for cleaning, I suggested checking for cracked gears, I guess he didn't, or maybe he didn't completely clean the trucks as recomended.
The link I rpovided to the TCS site shows whats needed for DCC conversion, and would be the same for any manufactuers decoder, other than a board replacement. I bet someone has a drop-in board, I haven't search.
I get his frustration, but that's the way it is with NOS. (New Old Stock)
The notch in the weight for the Life Like Proto GP7-9 circuit board is shorter than most of the drop in decoder boards. This is one of the pre-8 pin socket boards.
Here in the states, some hobby stores order from Walthers weekly. I realize postage to Canada is expensive.
Depends on which run of the GP7's you have. All of mine are of the 8 pin variety.
They still don't fit the board replacement form factor decoders. Several manufacturers made special drop in decoders for those versions. But all the wires are right there in front of you, they are easy hard wire installs with a decoder such as the TCS T1. T1-LED and you can pull those horrid light bulbs and connect LEDs, nothing else needed, as the T1-LED already has the resistors for the LEDs included.
Then there's the SD7/9, I'm sure they've done more runs of those, but the one I installed a decoder in did have room for a board replacement decoder, but no mouting pegs for it like found in the intended recipients from Atlas and Athearn. The factory board was the one with 8 holes for the wires, with several "Cut here for DCC" locations marked with X's. That too got a hard wired decoder because the factory board made no sense trying to follow the connections from the 8 decoder leads to the lights, motor, and track once the traces were cut. Again, since everything runs to the factory board - track pickups, motor wires, lights - it's extremely easy to hard wire a decoder.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
It does have 8 pin harness, but everything seems to work fine after it was cleaned. I was just excited (like a kid in a candy store) to buy a new CPR GP9 to add to my collection and that i never thought i would be getting any issues. Anyways, I ordered 2 set of gears from walthers. Fairly cheap price but unfortunately it cost more to ship it......oh well. Just got to play the patient game now. Sure is frustrating
I got a lot of helpfull tips from this forum! again much apprecited. Do all new locomotives come with cracked gears or is it just a certian models???
There was a series of P2K locos over a specific time period that are more suceptible than others. A few other brands have occasionally shown up with cracking issues but it's not all that common except those certain P2K models - where if they aren't cracked yet, they will be.
I don't order anything directly from Walthers - I don;t think they want to sell anything direct, really, which is why their shipping is absolutely ridiculous. Athearn #60024 gears work for the P2K, and you can get them pretty cheap. I just repalced all mine as I put decoders in them, only one actually had cracked gears, but rather than wait and have to take the same loco apart again, I just did them all at once.
rrinkerAthearn #60024 gears work for the P2K, and you can get them pretty cheap.
Randy, do you have a technique other than a hand held push to get these gears to fir the axel? I cannot the hand of it.
No, just push and twist. You DO need an NMRA gauge to set the proper wheel gauge.
Randy: okay, I'll keep trying.