Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Problem with JMRI Operatons

1068 views
24 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January 2019
  • 24 posts
Problem with JMRI Operatons
Posted by wolfman hal on Monday, February 17, 2020 11:06 AM

I just started to set up JMRI Operations and have run into a problem.  I am not using to run trains but only create a manifest.  I have been able to create a route and assemble a train. I am work on my second route and train. Here is the problem. 

1. Train leaves Wolfcreek mine with four  loaded ORE cars.

2. Arrives at Chama Interchange where there are 4 empty ORE cars on the siding.

Here is where the problem starts. Theses empty cars are supposed to be retunded to Wolfcreek Mine.

3. I am getting a messege that it can not put the loaded cars on the siding because there are cars there and not enough room. It needs to pull the cars off the siding and then put the new cars in. 

What am I doing wrong?

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • 6,795 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Monday, February 17, 2020 11:17 AM

I've never ran a layout using computer programs, JMRI, and such, so you either unplug the technical stuff and do it the way a real railroad would do it, OR the way your JMRI says, couple to the empties with the train of loaded cars, pull the empties out, park them on the main, and then shove the full cars into the siding.

And if your computer and JMRI don't like that,  tell it to shut up and be quiet.  

It's YOUR choice, YOUR railroad, not JMRI's

Is this like the talking HAL, in the movie: 2001: A Space Odyssey ?

Mike.

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • 24 posts
Posted by wolfman hal on Monday, February 17, 2020 11:29 AM

Thats what I do now with my own manifest.  What is neat about JMRI is when you finish a session it will now remember where all the cars are and reshuffle  the deck with different cars.

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • 6,795 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Monday, February 17, 2020 11:36 AM

OK, well,  what ever you like doing.  I'm just a one man show, with a one man layout, no other operators, so I've never had a problem of remembering where cars are, as I can see them, and I've always "shuffled" my own deck as to what cars I need for the next switching ops.

Have fun!

Mike.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 1,922 posts
Posted by Stevert on Monday, February 17, 2020 10:46 PM

You aren't doing anything wrong. That's the "normal" way Ops works.

But you want it to be more aggressive, pulling those cars first, then dropping the empties. So what you need to do is go into your build options and select "aggressive". That should get it to work the way you want.

More info here:

https://www.jmri.org/help/en/package/jmri/jmrit/operations/Operations.shtml#BuildOptions 

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • 24 posts
Posted by wolfman hal on Tuesday, February 18, 2020 6:27 AM

Thanks. That should work.  One question. Can you build one train aggresive an another Normal?

Harold

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: From Golden, CO living in Puyallup (Seattle), WA
  • 654 posts
Posted by Renegade1c on Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:28 PM

No. It is a global setting. 


Colorado Front Range Railroad: 
http://www.coloradofrontrangerr.com/

flag

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • 106 posts
Posted by restorator on Wednesday, February 19, 2020 9:22 PM

wolfman hal

Thanks. That should work.  One question. Can you build one train aggresive an another Normal?

Harold

 

 

Yes you can do it on a per train basis, but you have to set the global setting to aggressive, then "use normal mode when building" in the specific train options

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • 6,795 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 20, 2020 7:44 AM

So, what happens if you try to "disobey" JMRI, and do what you want, or need to do, does it shut the power down? display a huge flashing "ERROR" message?

I do use JMRI for decoders, never tried the operations thing.

Mike.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 1,922 posts
Posted by Stevert on Thursday, February 20, 2020 9:29 AM

mbinsewi

So, what happens if you try to "disobey" JMRI, and do what you want, or need to do, does it shut the power down? display a huge flashing "ERROR" message?

I do use JMRI for decoders, never tried the operations thing.

Mike.

 

Here's the 10,000-foot "simplified" view, right from the JMRI Ops page:

<quote>

The JMRI Operations program allows you to create computer generated train Manifests for your railroad. A train Manifest details the work that a crew will perform during an operations session. The Manifest provides a list of car pick up and set outs and shows where the cars are located and where they should be eventually positioned on the railroad. The program allows you to enter a roster of cars and locomotives, define locations (stations) on the railroad, and routes for trains to travel. The car roster includes information about the car, including road, number, type of car, color, length, weight, load, date built, and owner. Trains are assigned routes that define locations or stations where cars can be picked up or set out. Features include the ability to control what car types, roads, and car loads a location or industry can service, the available track space for a location, and the maximum length the train can be between any two locations in the train's route.

Locations can have spurs, yards, staging and classification/interchange tracks. Spurs are used to service industries, and can optionally have schedules assigned to them which allows for very fine control over car movement and loads. Trains can be configured to require a caboose or car with Flashing Rear End Device (FRED). The program generates Manifests for each train and switch lists for any location. A switch list for a location shows the work for all of the trains that will visit that location. The program can also place icons representing trains on a JMRI panel. The icon can be taught to move in the panel along with the train from location to location.

</quote>

If you "disobey" it, it won't do anything except build useless trains, because the cars it selects won't be at the locations it thinks they're at, and the space on a track it thinks is available is filled with the "wrong" cars, etc.

I use it, and really like it. The options make it easy to tailor it to exactly how you want it to work. The author frequents the JMRI list on groups.io and has been very willing to offer assistance and will sometimes even even modify the code to accommodate user requests as long as it doesn't negatively affect other users. And, it doesn't require the "rebalancing" that some other car-forwarding software seems to.

Since you already have JMRI, try the demo railroad included with Ops. It will give you an idea of what it can do, and if you "break" something in the demo files you can reset it and start again.

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • 6,795 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 20, 2020 9:54 AM

Thanks for the explanation.  I have a small layout, and all of the industries I have, I can see, as I walk the front of the layout.

I know what plastic pellets cars I need when and where, along with the variety of cars I use at the food processing planr, and the trans loading are.

Thanks for the info, I think I'll just continue the way I am.

Tells you when you need a EOT device?  That's pretty obvious.

Mike.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 27,700 posts
Posted by rrinker on Thursday, February 20, 2020 12:10 PM

 It is pretty obvious where the EOT device belongs, but I don't think anyone yet has made an HO scale (or smaller) portable one(that works, anyway) - they are built in to the car, like the Ring one, or the Bachmann car that comes with one preinstalled. So slightly unprototypical, you have to put a specific car facing a specific way at the end of the train. If using a dummy one that just sits ont he coupler like a real one, I suppose there's no reason for the program to notify you of this, you know to stick it on the last car at the end of the train.

                                --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 1,922 posts
Posted by Stevert on Thursday, February 20, 2020 4:30 PM

mbinsewi

Tells you when you need a EOT device?  That's pretty obvious.

Yeah, that's pretty obvious, but it's not what was quoted - It says "Trains can be configured to require a caboose or car with Flashing Rear End Device (FRED)." (Emphasis added)

So when you build a train that requires one, Ops will add it. But whether the train requires one or not is entirely up to you. As I mentioned, there are lots of preferences you can set to customize Ops to your need/desires.

For example, on my layout trains require a caboose. But I have two different roads (one is a run-through layover) as well as transfer cabeese. So Ops not only picks  a caboose, it picks the "right" caboose for each train. 

Could I do that manually, or with car cards, or whatever? Of course! But a couple extra keystrokes when I set up Ops, and now it does it for me.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Omaha, NE
  • 9,671 posts
Posted by dehusman on Thursday, February 20, 2020 4:54 PM

JMRI produces the railroad equivalent of what we used to call a "work order", which is the equivalent of a switch list for a local or industry job.  

It won't produce a prototypical train list and it won't produce a prototypical yard switch list (but then there was only 1 model railroad program that I know of that did that and its developer has passed, so its unsupported freeware).

Having said that, if you want computer generated lists to switch your industries, its the best system I have seen or tried.  And its free.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • 6,795 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, February 21, 2020 7:26 AM

Thanks guys, I could see where a switch list would be something different for my small ops., something to try.

Especially for the food plant, "Grandma Ginger's" Foods".  There are hoppers for the mill ops, including incoming grain, and out going processed flour to other plants,  sweetners, oil, and tomato paste, etc., in tank cars, and reefers for incoming gaylords of frozen fruits and vegies, and outbound package products.

The trans load area can get busy as well.

The plastic injection plant and the pulp wood landing are pretty straight forward.

I guess the only thing is, JMRI is on my laptop, up in my office, with the PR4 and test track for decoder work, and not connected to the layout.

Thanks again for the info guys! 

Mike.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 1,922 posts
Posted by Stevert on Friday, February 21, 2020 8:57 AM

mbinsewi

I guess the only thing is, JMRI is on my laptop, up in my office, with the PR4 and test track for decoder work, and not connected to the layout.

Thanks again for the info guys! 

Mike.

 

Doesn't matter, because Ops doesn't need a layout connection. Build and print your trains, then walk over to the layout with your paperwork in hand...

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • 24 posts
Posted by wolfman hal on Sunday, February 23, 2020 9:02 AM

Ok

 You seem to be well versed on JMRI. So I have another question?

Before JMRI one of my trains had a simple run as other trains were running ops. My layout is 10' x 16 ' so one train must be simple. 

1. It started at with TWO loaded log cars at Mill Creek Lumber.

2. Went to Balwin Sawmill where there are TWO empty log cars.

It said to pull the two empties from Balwin and replace with the loaded car.  This is correct.

But in the other example above it would not let me do that at the interchange with the ore cars.  Setting is still on NORMAL. Does it have anythng to do with it is called an  INTERCHANGE instead of a SPUR?

In the lumber example it is doing one other strange thing. It is supposed to return to Millcreek lumber with the empty cars.  The Manafest routes the train for an additional PU and when it returns To Mill Creek it puts One of the empties at MILL CREEK LUMER ( Which is correct ) but spots the other empty at the Millcreek Spur next store.  Will this correct itself on it's next run?

Thanks in Advance

Harold

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 1,922 posts
Posted by Stevert on Sunday, February 23, 2020 8:17 PM

wolfman hal

Ok

 You seem to be well versed on JMRI. So I have another question?

Before JMRI one of my trains had a simple run as other trains were running ops. My layout is 10' x 16 ' so one train must be simple. 

1. It started at with TWO loaded log cars at Mill Creek Lumber.

2. Went to Balwin Sawmill where there are TWO empty log cars.

It said to pull the two empties from Balwin and replace with the loaded car.  This is correct.

But in the other example above it would not let me do that at the interchange with the ore cars.  Setting is still on NORMAL. Does it have anythng to do with it is called an  INTERCHANGE instead of a SPUR?

In the lumber example it is doing one other strange thing. It is supposed to return to Millcreek lumber with the empty cars.  The Manafest routes the train for an additional PU and when it returns To Mill Creek it puts One of the empties at MILL CREEK LUMER ( Which is correct ) but spots the other empty at the Millcreek Spur next store.  Will this correct itself on it's next run?

Thanks in Advance

Harold

 

I have Ops configured for my layout, and I've used several of the preferences/options to get to that point. But there's a lot of it I haven't used or experimented with, so I certainly wouldn't consider myself an expert.

That said, to answer your first question, yes, interchanges are treated differently than spurs. That's why Ops has different types of track designations. Each one has it's own use case, set of rules, etc. They're all described in the Help.

For your second question (Mill Creek vs Millcreek), I suspect it's because you've allowed off-spot cars in the same town. Or possibly you made the Milcreek Spur an alternate track for Mill Creek Lumber? Whether or not it "corrects itself" depends on why it placed the car there in the first place.

In either case, to see why Ops did or didn't do something, set your build report option to "Very Detailed", build your train, and examine that build report. It's in text format, so just do a "find" on the car number or location in question. It may be listed several times, so to see all the instances simply repeat the find until you reach the bottom of the buld report.

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • 24 posts
Posted by wolfman hal on Monday, February 24, 2020 6:43 AM

Makes sence.  Tomorrow I will change the inerchange to a Spur. and see if that works. I think it will as the other Spurs are swaping cars. I will also remove Lumber car from the other Spur.  If you would keep checking this tread I would appreciare it as I am sure I will have other question but I have not got the time to look all the time.

 

Thanks again

Harold

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 1,922 posts
Posted by Stevert on Monday, February 24, 2020 8:21 PM

wolfman hal

Makes sence.  Tomorrow I will change the inerchange to a Spur. and see if that works. I think it will as the other Spurs are swaping cars. I will also remove Lumber car from the other Spur. 

I would suggest that you read the Ops help sections describing the different track types and what the purpose/ability/restrictions are for each type.

wolfman hal

If you would keep checking this tread I would appreciare it as I am sure I will have other question but I have not got the time to look all the time.

 

Thanks again

Harold

 

A much better option would be for you to join the jmriusers list on groups.io and post your Ops questions there. Folks with way more experience with and knowledge of Ops than I have, including the developer who writes the code, hang out there and can give you authoritative answers.

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • 24 posts
Posted by wolfman hal on Friday, March 6, 2020 9:22 AM

I set up and joined the JMRI forum.  One problem is that I can not find a way to post my problem. I have gone over every page and help with no results.  

Can you direct me to how to post?

Thanks in advance

Harold

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • 6,795 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, March 6, 2020 9:30 AM

Harold, I am in this group, look at the column of topics on the left.  The 5th one down, click on "New Topic".

Mike.

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • 24 posts
Posted by wolfman hal on Monday, March 9, 2020 4:44 PM

Mike 

The column on the left only has

Home

Guidelines

Messages

#hashtag 

On top under Topics are

Messages

Expanded

Polls

Is this because I am subscribed but not paying a premium.

Harold

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • 6,626 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Monday, March 9, 2020 5:22 PM

Maybe you didn't really join or the membership didn't get approved for some reason

  • I am not a member of JMRI and I see what you see
  • I belong to 4 other MR groups.io forums and in all of those I see what Mike described

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • 24 posts
Posted by wolfman hal on Tuesday, March 10, 2020 7:21 AM

Thanks Guys

I found out what I was doing wrong and now I am in business. It had to get Moderator approval.  Thanks again

Harold

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!