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Peco electrofrog shorting

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Peco electrofrog shorting
Posted by MidlandPacific on Saturday, June 01, 2019 8:08 AM

Building a layout for my son in HO, and the track setup (loop with yard and branch, no return loops) has three Peco electrofrog switches (planning to put DCC in as soon as I can get it to run with DC).  One problem- whenever I throw any one of the three switches, the layout shorts when they’re in the “reversed” position.  Anyone have experience dealing with this, and ideas for fixing it?

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  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
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Posted by MisterBeasley on Saturday, June 01, 2019 8:31 AM

Can you post a picture of how you have track feeders wired?  That sounds like the problem.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, June 01, 2019 9:52 AM

You need to have insulated rail joiners on both rails after the frog. Do You have them? DC and DCC.

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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Posted by BigDaddy on Saturday, June 01, 2019 10:02 AM

Do you have insulated joiners on the frog rails?

A track diagram would help

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

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Posted by MidlandPacific on Saturday, June 01, 2019 11:57 AM

Do you mean the rails on the trailing side of the turnout that pass through the frog?  Insulating those should solve the problem?

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Posted by SPSOT fan on Saturday, June 01, 2019 12:47 PM

MidlandPacific

Do you mean the rails on the trailing side of the turnout that pass through the frog?  Insulating those should solve the problem?

I believe the other forum members were referring to the part were the two rails join together. Here positive and negative rails join and will cause a short if this section is not insulated. I don't know if Peco turnouts insulate this section (I use Atlas, and they do). If not plastic rail joined are needed. A frog juicer or something similar can be used to give power to this section or if your locos have good pickup you can rely on the points touching the rails ( I do this)

Hope this was helpful!

Regards, Isaac

I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!

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Posted by floridaflyer on Saturday, June 01, 2019 1:12 PM

Google  peco electro frog turnouts, diagrams will show you exactly where to insulate.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Saturday, June 01, 2019 3:01 PM

MidlandPacific
Do you mean the rails on the trailing side of the turnout that pass through the frog?  Insulating those should solve the problem?

Scroll down to #2-12B

I suggest not cutting the jumpers to the frog, unless you have another way to power the frog.

http://wiringfordcc.com/switches_peco.htm

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

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Posted by BigDaddy on Saturday, June 01, 2019 3:23 PM

SPSOT fan
I believe the other forum members were referring to the part were the two rails join together. Here positive and negative rails join and will cause a short if this section is not insulated. I don't know if Peco turnouts insulate this section (I use Atlas, and they do). If not plastic rail joined are needed. A frog juicer or something similar can be used to give power to this section or if your locos have good pickup you can rely on the points touching the rails ( I do this)

This is not good information.

Peco Electrofrogs are power routing and the frog is hot.

The frog rails are the two rails that connect to the frog and exit, one on the diverging route and one on the main route.  Depending on which way the points are thrown, the frog and both frog rails are the same polarity.  That is causing the OP's short on the next piece of rail that attaches to the main frog rail, when the turnout is on the diverging route.

If the OP does not cut the jumpers showing in Wiring for DCC, he will not need a frog juicer, which does not play well with the electrofrog, unless the jumpers are cut.

 The Insulfrog has wheel shorting issues, where the frog rails join, or nearly join at the frog.

Just  for completeness Atlas frogs are insululated and the frog rails do not need insulated joiners and the frog rails are different polarities, all the time.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, June 01, 2019 3:46 PM

As Henry indicates, the Peco Eectrofrog is power routing and power passes through the frog. The inner frog rails need to be insulated. A good source of information and illustration of the problem and the solution can be found here.

http://railwaybobsmodulebuildingtips.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-peco-electrofrog-circuitry.html

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, June 01, 2019 5:39 PM

Midland Pacific,

Read and see the diagrams for Insulating Peco Electrofrog turnouts after the frog is Mandatory.

 Don't worry about any other problem's if encountered until You follow the INSTRUCTIONS first.............

https://dccwiki.com/PECO_Electrofrog#Electrofrog

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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    February, 2003
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Posted by MidlandPacific on Wednesday, June 05, 2019 4:25 PM

My thanks to you all for the advice: I replaced the nickel-silver rail joiners on the inside rails on the trailing end of the switch with rubber rail joiners, and it solved the problem.

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