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Stub end yard reversing section

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  • Member since
    March, 2018
  • 34 posts
Stub end yard reversing section
Posted by Cymrych79 on Friday, May 17, 2019 10:39 PM

Hi all,

 

Not actually a first time poster, although it might show up that way; I goofed during my renewal this year by using my work, and it effectively created a new account for me.

 

Anyhow, due to space constraints, my two end-of-life staging yards share a peninsula, with one side's yard feeding the northbound main going clockwise around the walls, and the other side's yard feeding the southbound main going counterclockwise around the walls. All track is N scale Peco 55 with electrofrog turnouts powered by Frog Juicers.

 

I decided that it'd be pretty convenient to have a crossover between the yards near the end of two stub. However, the polarity of the rails are opposite, so a reversing section is needed.

 

Where's the best place to put the actually reversing section in such a scenario? My first thought is it needs to include one of the switches and the end of that switch's stub track. But would this cause any issues with using a Frog Juicer for that switch's frog? It would mean a double juicer for the reversing section plus a single for the frog, and the single would need to flip fast enough after the double juicer flips the stock rail polarity to not cause a noticeable pause in operation. I  can push the insulators between the divergent routes as far away from the reversing section turnout as possible, about 3 inches. But I don't know if that would matter so much, since if there's decent electrical contact between the stock rails and the point rails, then as soon as the stock rail polarity gets flipped so would the frog.

 

If the above is viable, has anyone had any issues with the single frog juicer? I'm not sure how they would respond to the input polarity on the board itself changing.

 

Thanks for your help/advice!

 

Jason (aka cymrych79)

  • Member since
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  • From: somerset, nj
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Posted by gregc on Saturday, May 18, 2019 5:17 AM

diagram?

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by Cymrych79 on Saturday, May 18, 2019 7:20 AM

Yard diagram

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bQnBCwl1sJI13PUDuaPx1wBL_f5-F0rx/view?usp=drivesdk

 

I don't know if the photo will show here, so there's a link to the same pic I uploaded to Google drive. Obviously it's a simplified diagram, but it shows the proposed crossover connecting the two yards, and following the main around you'll see that the A and B rails would be mismatched at the crossover.

 

Jason

  • Member since
    December, 2015
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Posted by BigDaddy on Saturday, May 18, 2019 7:47 AM

We don't have permission to see either link.

Posting Pics in the Forum

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/249194.aspx

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

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Posted by Cymrych79 on Saturday, May 18, 2019 8:00 AM

Think I forgot to turn permissions on. Try this:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bQnBCwl1sJI13PUDuaPx1wBL_f5-F0rx/view?usp=drivesdk

If that doesn't work, I'll wait until I get back to my computer and try something else.

  • Member since
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Posted by BigDaddy on Saturday, May 18, 2019 8:11 AM

Hope you don't mind, but I stole your image so we can see it here

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

  • Member since
    March, 2018
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Posted by Cymrych79 on Saturday, May 18, 2019 8:31 AM

Thank you!! Working from my phone was a pain; took forever just to figure out how to reduce it to a resolution that might display here simply for everyone. Cheers!

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Posted by Cymrych79 on Saturday, May 18, 2019 8:43 AM

Ok, to expand on what the simplistic diagram shows, I have a balloon track connecting the left and right yards to enable continuous running but which won't be used during op sessions as the yards are 30 miles apart, operationally. Likewise, the crossover will only be used between sessions to quickly reverse engine directions without resorting to the 0-5-0 switcher. The shortest stub below the crossover is just long enough for a double engine lash-up to transfer to the opposing yard.

  • Member since
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  • 34 posts
Posted by Cymrych79 on Saturday, May 18, 2019 11:43 AM

Had some time to think this over, and I think I see two solutions.

 

1) Since the peco electrofrog require insulators on the frog rails, the turnouts are electrically already isolated. If I put insulators on the north end of the left-side turnout, that turnout and its tail stub would be the reversing section.

 

Pros: During operations (ie: when the crossover wouldn't be utilized), I can park trains on the straight paths through both turnouts, treating both as if the crossover didn't exist. Possible con: I'm not sure exactly what I attach as inputs for a separate frog juicer to power the frog of the turnout within the reversing section.

 

2) Treat the entire crossover and both tail end stubs as parallel wreckage, and put in a short, 2-engine long reversing section north of the left-side turnout.

 

Pros: Avoids possible frog juicer issue. Con: During ops I could only park a train as far south as the north end of the left-side turnout.

 

Are there other options I'm missing?

 

I'm leaning option one, but would like input from folks who've powered their frogs. Anyone with a wye in a reversing section which also has a a frog juicer to power the frog? I can always leave out that juicer and just keep the point rails clean for electrical power to the frog easily enough.

  • Member since
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  • From: Pacific Northwest
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Posted by SPSOT fan on Saturday, May 18, 2019 12:13 PM

Did you wire something funny that I am failing to notice? Based off your diagram you should have the polarities line up. Am I missing something?

Regards, Isaac

I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!

  • Member since
    July, 2009
  • From: somerset, nj
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Posted by gregc on Saturday, May 18, 2019 12:17 PM

i believe the lower right turnout of the cross over needs to be completely isolated to make it a reversing section.   That means all 4 diverging rails need to be isolated

the frog juser should be connected to the rails w/in the reversing section

 

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by Cymrych79 on Saturday, May 18, 2019 1:06 PM

SPOTSfan: No, the feeds are reversed from "normal" for the far yard, regardless which side you are standing in front of. I wired the layout with "black to back" all the way around the room, and that follows into the peninsula too, such that the back rail of the yard you are standing in (either one) is black, and the nearest rail of the other yard is also black.

  • Member since
    March, 2018
  • 34 posts
Posted by Cymrych79 on Saturday, May 18, 2019 1:12 PM

Gregc: Correct, all the divergent rails of the right turnout would need insulators for it to be used as a reversing section. I reversed my lefts and rights in my last post .... I forgot which way I drew the crossover.

 

With the frog juicer, just splice into the rail feeds for the reversing section then? Instead of straight from the buss, like would normally happen?

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