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Tortoise Gremlin?

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  • Member since
    May 2018
  • 68 posts
Tortoise Gremlin?
Posted by Paul Schulze on Friday, April 12, 2019 5:48 PM

The topic of tortoise hum problem has been discussed in the past but I have a very specific question about the AH-362 MRC Tortoise Switch Power Supply which I do not think was available when the hum issue was discussed.

I am using the AH-362 MRC Tortoise Switch Power Supply to control several Tortoises using a simple SPDT switch.  The MRC has three wires, common, +12VDC, and -12VDC. The common is conntected to one Tortoise motor lead and the other two outputs to the SPDT switch which feeds the second motor lead.  The Tortoises have a hum when switched either way.  Is this due to the power supply and if so, how could I solve the problem?  What am I missing?

  • Member since
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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Friday, April 12, 2019 6:04 PM

 Potential downside of using that type of power supply with SPDT instead of a standard DC supply and a DPDT toggle - it's only half wave rectified to there is plenty of leftover AC hum.

                                                  --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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  • From: lavale, md
  • 4,678 posts
Posted by gregc on Saturday, April 13, 2019 4:07 PM

wouldn't adding 1000uF caps help?

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
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Posted by RR_Mel on Saturday, April 13, 2019 4:41 PM

I guess that would depend how much ripple was there, a large cap could increase the voltage if there is a lot of ripple.
 
I’d try a 500 watching the DC voltage for increase.  If it doesn’t raise the voltage more than a volt a 1K or pair wound really put a dent in the hum.
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by Paul Schulze on Saturday, April 13, 2019 7:43 PM

gregc

wouldn't adding 1000uF caps help?

 

Thanks 

  • Member since
    May 2018
  • 68 posts
Posted by Paul Schulze on Saturday, April 13, 2019 7:44 PM

RR_Mel

I guess that would depend how much ripple was there, a large cap could increase the voltage if there is a lot of ripple.
 
I’d try a 500 watching the DC voltage for increase.  If it doesn’t raise the voltage more than a volt a 1K or pair wound really put a dent in the hum.
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
 

Thank you for the help. 

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, April 14, 2019 8:25 PM

I can't speak for the power supply in question, but my whole layout is full of home made center tap DC power supplies.

+12 volts to neutral, -12 volts to neutral, 24 volts phase to phase for my control relays.

But to built them I put a full wave bridge on each of two transformers then connect the positive and negative together. No hum, on my switch machines or my 24 volt relays.

A 500uF cap on each bridge output will smooth it out more.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Monday, April 15, 2019 7:05 AM

 That's the difference between full wave rectification and half wave. I don;t have one to take apart, but I would make a pretty heavy bet that MRC did not use two power supplies common'd together - rather a simple center tap transformer with a single diode on each of the legs installed opposite each other so one is + relative to the center tap and the other is -. 

 Adding filtering may work, but check the resulting output voltage - adding a significant filter capacitor raises the voltage to the AC peak so if it's already near 12V without the filter caps, adding them can easily push it over 15V. This might not be a problem if you have LEDs in series with the motors as position indicators, a pair of bicolor LEDs in series will drop the voltage back under 12.

                                                   --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, April 15, 2019 8:39 AM

rrinker

 That's the difference between full wave rectification and half wave. I don;t have one to take apart, but I would make a pretty heavy bet that MRC did not use two power supplies common'd together - rather a simple center tap transformer with a single diode on each of the legs installed opposite each other so one is + relative to the center tap and the other is -. 

 Adding filtering may work, but check the resulting output voltage - adding a significant filter capacitor raises the voltage to the AC peak so if it's already near 12V without the filter caps, adding them can easily push it over 15V. This might not be a problem if you have LEDs in series with the motors as position indicators, a pair of bicolor LEDs in series will drop the voltage back under 12.

                                                   --Randy

 

Yes, I suspect you are right about that power supply.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    May 2018
  • 68 posts
Posted by Paul Schulze on Monday, April 15, 2019 3:20 PM

I went back and looked at the Tortoise spec sheet and saw that it said filtering was not necessary. At stall, they draw about 15mA thus creating a hum if ripple is present.  My conclusion is that if you can stand the hum, you probably will not hurt the Tortoise machines especially when using a center tap MRC AC to DC converter. 

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