I know very little about DCC decoders. I have several diesels I'd like to add decoders to, but am unsure whether to use TCS DP2X or DP5, and/or NCE D14SR decoders. The prospective victims of these conversions include a couple Intermountain F7's, a couple Athearn GP9's, a pair of new Atlas RS11's, and an Atlas Dash 8-40CW (which I bought on a lark). Is there a huge difference in reliability or features between them that justifies the higher prices of the TCS units? Thanks in advance for your help.
I think you should go to their web sites, and see what they are. The DP5 is a 5 function, the 2x is a 2 function, and the NCE decoder is a 6 function.
Check out their web sites, and learn a little about what loco each one is specificly designed for, and learn about the number of functions.
If you want just basic motor control, and front and rear lights, any 2 function decoder should do.
Mike.
My You Tube
Both manufacturers say their products work with Atlas, Athearn, Intermountain, etc. I wasn't sure about what the number of functions means or whether that'll affect anything, or whether one company's decoders are better than another or if one decoder is better at keeping things moving over switches than the others. Since a lot of you guys know this infinitely better than I, it seemed a good idea to post here. Thanks for your help.
PS -- to get functioning ditch lights (for example), I'd need a decoder with more than two functions, right?
Uncle_Bob to get functioning ditch lights (for example), I'd need a decoder with more than two functions, right?
Yes. Usually with decoder models, the first number is the number of functions, pretty much with all the manufacturers.
I'm not sure which manufacturers, if any have a built in "keep alive" which is what your referring to as far as getting over dirty spots or turnouts. I think ESU does.
Most of the manufacturers, like Digitrax, NCE, and TCS have a decoder selection in their web sites.
Some are designed to fit right on the excisting circuit board on the loco.
To be honest with you, I'm still climbing the learning curve myself, not too far a head of you, and the information in here, and on the different manufacturers web sites helps a bunch.
The TCS web site has a great section on installation how-to's, which decoder to use with a specific loco, and how to do it.
Bob,
I'm an NCE guy but TCS is my go-to motor-only decoder because of its excellent motor-control. For that feature alone the price difference is worth it to me. I find the TCS documentation straightforward to follow. I also agree that the TCS website offers a huge variety of installations to glean information from.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I wish the ESU web site was as easy. I have not found a decoder selector there in all of the time and clicking I've done on their site.
It's like you have to know exactly what you want before you get there.
The decoders you mentioned are not sound decoders. Since you are a self confessed newbie, you may or may not know that.
Not everyone likes sound and the cost of conversion is considerably more.
Finding a space for speakers can be a problem in older locos. My impression now is all new locos that are available with a DCC sound version, have room someplace for speakers in their DC version.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Uncle_BobI wasn't sure about what the number of functions means or whether that'll affect anything, or whether one company's decoders are better than another or if one decoder is better at keeping things moving over switches than the others.
When a decoder is described as "2-function", it means that it can control a front & rear headlight. A 4-function decoder can do what a 2-function decoder can but has two additional functions. The extra wires can be used for controlling ditch lighting or illuminating number boards - i.e. unless the latter is a built-in feature using the front headlight to illuminate a light tube (e.g. Stewart F-units). A 6-function decoder allows you to control up to six independent lighting functions.
BigDaddy The decoders you mentioned are not sound decoders. Since you are a self confessed newbie, you may or may not know that. Not everyone likes sound and the cost of conversion is considerably more. Finding a space for speakers can be a problem in older locos. My impression now is all new locos that are available with a DCC sound version, have room someplace for speakers in their DC version.
I'm not averse to sound. I just don't want to get in over my head, especially given that the price of sound decoders, speakers, etc could cost more than the price of the engines. Maybe after awhile I'll give that a shot, but not now.
Anyway, from what I gather, TCS decoders may be better than NCE, and are somewhat more expensive.
There's no maybe about it; TCS is better. They make a very good product.
I just received an Atlas HO RS11 yesterday, pulled the shell off (it was a 2011 product), it has the standard 8-pin connector on one end of the circuit board and it looks like a Digitrax DH126PS (1" cable length) should drop right in. I was looking at some "cable-less" decoders (just a card with the 8 pins attached), not sure if there's clearance for them to fit. I guess it depends on the particular product run, probably best to take the shell off and take a look before ordering...
OldEnginemanI guess it depends on the particular product run, probably best to take the shell off and take a look before ordering...
Good idea. If your using Digitrax, they have a drop-down decoder selector thing on their web site, that would show you everything they make, that would fit in that loco.
On the TCS web site, just look at the Installation section, you'll probably find your loco in there with the how-to and what decoder. They have a seperate install thing for sound, once again your loco is probably there.
I don't know about NCE, and ESU, their web site is greek to me, I can't find anything like a drop-down selection thing.
Loksound basically only has 3 decoders in a given range. In the Select series, there is the Select Direct which is a board replacement in the form of the DC boards you see in most Atlas locos (the Kato made ones had a plastic 'board' but the Direct fits it) and most newer Athearn locos, and some others. Then there is a Select with wires, that can be hard wired into any loco, and finally the one with a 21 pin conenctor to use in the motherboards seen in the newest locos. Youc an also buy motherboards, which in form are like the Atlas/Athearn boards, and then plug a 21 pin decoder into that (which is really what the Select Direct is). They don't have a dozen varieties so there is no decoder selector to figure out what decoder goes in what loco.
At first you may want a simple plug in decoder, but as you become more experienced you may start to see things the way I do - my locos come from various eras some pre-DCC but most are after the introduction of DCC but there STILL is no standard for what "DCC Ready" actually means. Somethings this really does mean it will take more time to get the shell off the loco than to put a decoder in it, other times it means yeah, you can plug in a decoder, but you have to make a few other wiring changes. My way is - forget ANY factory board. In HO anyway. There are 6 wires to deal with. left rail pickup, right rail pickup, motor +, and motor -. And then the headlight pair. Maybe 2 more if the loco has a rear light as well. The wires on a decoder use the NMRA color code. Bypassing any factory circuit board means there is no doubt that the rail pickups go to the decoder input and do not touch the motor outputs. My era does not have any fancy lighting effects like ditch lights, just a headlight and a reverse light. And removing the factory board usually means more room for a speaker if I want to add sound.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
If you haven't already done so, first step would be to look inside each engine. Newer engines will normally have a receptacle for an eight-pin plug; some engines have both an eight-pin (two rows of four) receptacle and a nine-pin (nine in a row) receptacle. Looking inside will help you decide if you need a decoder with the 8 pins directly attached, or one with a harness (a nine-pin decoder connected to a harness that has an 8-pin plug on the other end). Harnesses come in different lengths to fit different situations. Some newer engines come with 21-pin receptacles. If you do go with sound, some newer engines come with a receptacle for a speaker already in place. If not, it's not that hard to make room for a speaker and enclosure. A 1/2" by 1" speaker/enclosure will fit most any HO diesel.
From what I've seen shopping around online, Digitrax, NCE, and TCS decoders with the same abilities cost about the same. Be sure you're not comparing say NCE standard decoders to TCS sound decoders. Sound decoders generally often cost 2 or 3 times more than standard, non-sound decoders.
TCS decoders are probably the easiest to program, although MRC ones are good too. Keep in mind the decoder will come from the factory pre-programmed with 'factory default' settings, so really all you have to change is the decoder ID number from the default 03 to the number of your engine. You can use CVs (control values) to adjust the momentum, lighting, speed settings etc., but you don't have to do that to use the decoder.
rrinkerThen there is a Select with wires, that can be hard wired into any loco
OK, not trying to hijack the thread, just looked on their web site, all come with the plug, if you want wires you need to cut the plug off, OK I get that, I want wires. I'm looking at the Loksound Select.
So, that same decoder could be used in my Athearn BB SD45 or my C44-9W, or my F7?
All I need to get extra is the speaker and enclosure?
Than I have to program which locomotive sound I want?
Do I need the Lokprogramer to do it?
What do I tell the guy at my LHS what I want? Judging by their web site, at the bottom of the Lok Sound Direct page, I see 2 models, the 73400 and the 73900, so I see wires on the 73400, is that the one I ask for?
OK, I have the decoder installed, now do I have to go to the Availiable Sound page and download the sound I want? and do I have to have the Lokprogrammer to do this? or is the sound already on the decoder? (repeating myself here)
The 73900 is a 21 pin connection, so that is not what you want.
You can buy blank decoders or decoders with the sound pre-programmed for the major locos, EMD ALCO, GE, Baldwin. To be clear, there isn't one diesel decoder that is loaded with all the sounds. EDIT To be even clearer, there isn't even one decoder per loco manufacturer. When you get to add to cart there is a drop down menu with another 20 or so specific engine choices. Look at the bottom of this page for the varieties available:
https://tonystrains.com/store/dcc-sound-power/dcc-decoders/esu_loksound?cat=173&scale=14
Tonys' is able to load sounds on a blank decoder for their customers. I'm not sure local hobby shops do that, or just keep inventory for the most popular versions.
You don't need a lokprogrammer if you order decoders with the proper sound for your decoder.
mbinsewi so I see wires on the 73400, is that the one I ask for?
Thanks Henry, the 73400 would be the one I want. And I will check out the link to Tony's.
mbinsewi OK, not trying to hijack the thread, just looked on their web site, all come with the plug, if you want wires you need to cut the plug off, OK I get that, I want wires.
Regarding "wires", if you see a decoder with wires coming out of it ending at a 8-pin plug, that's actually a harness. It plugs into the decoder using a 9-pin connector. Usually when the decoder comes with an 8-pin plug connected to it, the plastic wrapping covering the decoder covers the edge of the 9-pin plug so it looks like the plug is hardwired to the decoder...but generally it isn't. You can remove the harness and add a different one, inluding one that just has long wires to do a "hardwire" installation with, but you may need to trim back the plastic covering with a sharp hobby knife. Usually just 1/8" or so is all you need to cut.
There are many different harnesses, to fit many different situations:
http://tcsdcc.com/accessories/harnesses
mbinsewi mbinsewi so I see wires on the 73400, is that the one I ask for? Thanks Henry, the 73400 would be the one I want. And I will check out the link to Tony's. Mike.
When I ordered LokSound decoders online, the shop I ordered from programmed them for me. The LokSound site seemed clear to me on that issue. I ordered from Litchfield Station.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I lied. If you add one of the loco manufacturers programmed decoders to the cart, there is a another drop down menu with 20 choices of sound files for specific engine types.
wjstixRegarding "wires", if you see a decoder with wires coming out of it ending at a 8-pin plug, that's actually a harness. It plugs into the decoder using a 9-pin connector. Usually when the decoder comes with an 8-pin plug connected to it, the plastic wrapping covering the decoder covers the edge of the 9-pin plug so it looks like the plug is hardwired to the decoder...but generally it isn't. You can remove the harness and add a different one, inluding one that just has long wires to do a "hardwire" installation with, but you may need to trim back the plastic covering with a sharp hobby knife. Usually just 1/8" or so is all you need to cut. There are many different harnesses, to fit many different situations:
Yep, I get all that Stix, I've hardwired quite a few, and I've the used the "socket" type many times with Kato, and Bachmann.
I'm just getting into Loksound, and their 73400 only comes with the "harness" with the 8 pin socket.
I don't want the socket, so, as per the ESU web site instructions, I just cut the socket off, and keep the wires, so I can hardwire the decoder.
I'm installing this in an Athearn BB F7, no board, no socket, no DCC ready.
And I just found out my LHS stocks the 73400, and will download the sound file of my choice, and they are on sale!
I don't want to steal this thread from the OP, but through all of this, and the OP getting into decoders, maybe it's all good.
And, I am getting better at navigating the ESU web site. I'm spoiled, I want my drop-down box with decoder selection, like I get at Digitrax. I'll get over it!