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Un-DCCing a locomotive

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Un-DCCing a locomotive
Posted by Wolf359 on Wednesday, February 13, 2019 7:37 PM

[Split from "Bachmann DCC-equipped Berkshire question"]

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

As the owner of several of these locos, yes the DCC onboard (no factory sound) versions have an eight pin socket. I am more than familiar with this as I run DC and remove the decoders and install jumpers for DC.

And yes, I do believe all the tender floors are speaker ready.

Sheldon

Hi, if I may borrow this thread to a limited degree, I just bought a used one of these Pere Marquette Berkshires. I run DC only and the box says this is compatable with a regular DC analog layout and power pack. It did not come with instructions, so my question is how do I get it to run on my DC layout? (I don't have any DCC power packs, etc.) It ran on the DCC test track where I bought it, but won't on my DC layout. I looked up the instructions on Bachmann's site, and it said you could install a dummy plug in place of a decoder. As I have no experience with "un-DCCing" anything, (this is my first DCC equipped loco) would it be better for me as a novice to go with the dummy plug (and where I can buy one), or go Sheldon's route? Also, if I went with Sheldon's method, what is involved and how hard is it to do? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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Posted by gregc on Thursday, February 14, 2019 6:44 AM

if you have a plug (possibly the one below), you could simply bend some wires and insert them into the plug.   connect pins 1&8 and pins 2&7.   if you want lights, you would have to solder little wyes.

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by RR_Mel on Thursday, February 14, 2019 8:03 AM

Greg accidently I’m sure, eroded, the motor pins are 1 to 8 for the right rail and 4 to 5 for the left rail. 
 
 
 
This is the wiring diagram for a Bachmann 36-057 Dummy Plug for DC operation.
 
 
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, February 14, 2019 8:08 AM

Thanks Mel and Greg, mine and Rich's earlier efforts to answer this got deleted......

I remove all decoders because they will not work with my Aristo Craft Train Engineer throttles.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, February 14, 2019 8:12 AM

Are you guys suggestion he solder directly in the female socket or that he get one of these plugs and solder to that?

https://www.trainworld.com/manufacturers/train-control-systems/TCS-1254-8-pin-NMRA-plug-circuit-board/

Henry

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, February 14, 2019 8:17 AM

Bachmann included little three prong jumpers with their locos.

Sorry no photos.

Or you can solder the top of a plug, many brands of DCC ready locos came with just that.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by RR_Mel on Thursday, February 14, 2019 8:34 AM

BigDaddy

Are you guys suggestion he solder directly in the female socket or that he get one of these plugs and solder to that?

https://www.trainworld.com/manufacturers/train-control-systems/TCS-1254-8-pin-NMRA-plug-circuit-board/

 

I would never solder directly to the factory DCC connector.  Personally I stock the micro connectors off eBay, they can be cut to any number of contacts and are compatible with the NMRA 8 pin connector.  
 
They come in dual row 2x40 male and female (the round pin connectors are compatible with the DCC NMRA connector) header strips as well as single row 40 pin male and female.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 

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Posted by gregc on Thursday, February 14, 2019 8:37 AM

thanks mel

BigDaddy
Are you guys suggestion he solder directly in the female socket

no, just bend some thick enough wire and push it into the socket

 

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, February 14, 2019 8:38 AM

Most if not all decoders made in the last 10-15 years are 'dual mode' meaning they will work on DC or DCC, so if your used engine has a DCC decoder installed, it will work on DC. However, there is a CV (control value) setting on decoders that allow you to set the decoder to not operate on DC. If the prior owner did that, you would need to find someone who can program decoders and they can adjust it for you.

If what you're saying is you bought a used engine that doesn't have a decoder, but also doesn't have the dummy plug installed, then as noted above you'll need to either get a dummy plug, or take out the light board and re-wire the engine. Given that dummy plugs can be found online for a dollar or two, I'd just buy a new dummy plug and plug it in.

Stix
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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 14, 2019 8:42 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Thanks Mel and Greg, mine and Rich's earlier efforts to answer this got deleted....

Could you repost what you did in the original thread?

The Katos I have came with plugs in place for DC, and the plugs are like a 3 legged staple, one plug connecting 4,5 and 6,  the other plug connecting 1,2 and 8.

Athearns RTR come with a jumper plug that plugs into the wire harness that comes off the light board.

I have a couple of Bachmann Spectrum dash8-40cw that came with DCC on board, I'll look and see what they are about as far as going to DC.

Mike.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, February 14, 2019 9:17 AM

wjstix

Most if not all decoders made in the last 10-15 years are 'dual mode' meaning they will work on DC or DCC, so if your used engine has a DCC decoder installed, it will work on DC. However, there is a CV (control value) setting on decoders that allow you to set the decoder to not operate on DC. If the prior owner did that, you would need to find someone who can program decoders and they can adjust it for you.

If what you're saying is you bought a used engine that doesn't have a decoder, but also doesn't have the dummy plug installed, then as noted above you'll need to either get a dummy plug, or take out the light board and re-wire the engine. Given that dummy plugs can be found online for a dollar or two, I'd just buy a new dummy plug and plug it in.

 

Respectfully, your information is not completely correct.

First, the OP explained that the loco has a decoder, was tested on a DCC SYSTEM, but will not run on DC.

Second, dual mode decoders will not work on ALL DC systems, their performance on DC is usually poor at best, with high starting voltages and poor throttle control.

Third, any DC system that uses pulse width modulation speed control will set a dual mode decoder crazy and the loco will not run correctly if at all.

That includes a number of the better DC throttles including the Aristo Craft Train Engineer.

The best DC performance is only possible with the decoders removed.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, February 14, 2019 9:18 AM

mbinsewi

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Thanks Mel and Greg, mine and Rich's earlier efforts to answer this got deleted....

 

Could you repost what you did in the original thread?

The Katos I have came with plugs in place for DC, and the plugs are like a 3 legged staple, one plug connecting 4,5 and 6,  the other plug connecting 1,2 and 8.

Athearns RTR come with a jumper plug that plugs into the wire harness that comes off the light board.

I have a couple of Bachmann Spectrum dash8-40cw that came with DCC on board, I'll look and see what they are about as far as going to DC.

Mike.

 

Mike, not sure what other info you mean, but I will try to get back to you later, have to go now.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 14, 2019 9:35 AM

Wolf359
As I have no experience with "un-DCCing" anything, (this is my first DCC equipped loco) would it be better for me as a novice to go with the dummy plug (and where I can buy one),

After rereading your post, yes, go with the dummy plugs.  They look like a 3 prong staple, you need 2 of them.  

Scroll down to the bottom left hand corner of page 3, it shows how to install the plugs.

https://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/50901.pdf

I don't see the 2 plugs in the list of availiable parts for that locomotive, but they are kind of a generic thing that would work with any loco that comes DCC equiped,  so you should be able to contact Bachmann about purchasing them.

As far as how the plugs go into the socket, it's the same arrangement that I talk about in my previous post about my Kato locomotives.

Good luck!

Mike.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 14, 2019 9:56 AM

More infomation, here is the Bachmann part:

https://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=L1144-PCB02

If this came with a dual mode decoder, ( runs on DC or DCC) before you try anything else, do a decoder reset.

If that doesn't work than get the plug.

Mike.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, February 14, 2019 10:00 AM

I'm not sure the OP has access to a DCC system.  In one of the "lost posts" I said that running on DC might have been disabled by the PO. 

If he has no plans to get into DCC it sounds like removing the decoder is the best way to go.

Henry

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, February 14, 2019 10:04 AM

BigDaddy

I'm not sure the OP has access to a DCC system.  In one of the "lost posts" I said that running on DC might have been disabled by the PO. 

If he has no plans to get into DCC it sounds like removing the decoder is the best way to go.

 

Anyone serious about staying with DC should remove decoders, as per my post above.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 14, 2019 10:04 AM

Your right Henry, if he doesn't have access to a DCC system, he can't do a reset.

So just remove the decoder and install the plug.

Mike.

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Posted by richg1998 on Thursday, February 14, 2019 10:57 AM

The diagram pages at the Bachmann site show the adapters and eight pin plug which I had posted last night.

The OP does not have to join. Just go an look. The loco diagram, parts list is there also. A full desccription of that loco.

https://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=68_198&zenid=2t1uqsa3rm0j6km36sdr5dheh4

Someone posted a link.

Google bachmann forums. The link will pop right up. Excellent reference for any Bachmann owner. I have Bachmann locos.

I probably have the clips somewhere. never used them.

One time I bought an eight pin plug, they match, and soldered the correct pins for a friend years ago.

If he gets someone to change the CV, I do not think he will like the response of the loco. Takes at least five volts just to wake up the decoder.

Rich

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Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, February 14, 2019 11:13 AM

I agree with Sheldon:  remove the decoder completely, as operation with it in place is unacceptable, with poor throttle response on DC.

Basically, you need to connect the wipers on the drivers to one of the contacts on the motor, and connect the uninsulated wheels on the tender, using wire running from contacts inside the tender, to the other.  I can't help you with headlight connections, though, as I don't use them.

Wayne

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Posted by Wolf359 on Thursday, February 14, 2019 11:33 AM

Thanks for all the tips. I'm getting a plug from Bachmann, seems like the easiest fix. I'll let you know how it works when I get it installed.

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Posted by richg1998 on Thursday, February 14, 2019 3:29 PM

The adapter should do it all. Nothing else to do from all that I have heard.

All the wiring interacts at the eight pin plug.

I checked the wiring with my ohm meter some years ago.

Watch the tender trucks. Some tenders, the trucks can swivel all the way and that can cause a short. Each truck picks up from opposite rail. Drivers pick up from both rails. Be carefull with the two connectors. Easy to pull wires out. I pry out the connector with a flat blade small screwdriver first. I pulled out a wire once.

The two pin has driver power. Four pin, lights, motor power. PC board is marked. If yoiu see what looks like two green resistors, they are ferrite chokes. No resistance. Read the value. 4.7 micro henry. They work with the cap, caps as a filter for DCC. Some locos, they are hidden in the loco.

Rich

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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 14, 2019 3:36 PM

I guess I could've given the OP this link too, but with the board plug, there's no guessing.

https://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_91&products_id=7545

Mike.

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, February 14, 2019 3:44 PM

Wolf359

Thanks for all the tips. I'm getting a plug from Bachmann, seems like the easiest fix. I'll let you know how it works when I get it installed.

 
Good to hear! No doubt that is the most sensible route - try the easiest fix first and work from there. It also means if you decide to use DCC down the road, it's an easy switch back. I have to admit, I removed a few light boards and 'hard wired' the connections on a few engines in my DC days that I came to regret doing when I switched to DCC.
Stix
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Posted by snjroy on Thursday, February 14, 2019 5:48 PM

Using the plugs will also increase the resale value of the loco, if that matters.

Simon

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Posted by Wolf359 on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 1:15 PM

UPDATE: Good news! I got my dummy plug in the mail yesterday, (Tuesday, Feb. 19th) installed it the same day, and my Berkshire is now running smoothly. Thank you everyone for all your tips and suggestions.Big Smile

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Posted by richg1998 on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 2:02 PM

Nice to know it all works. We all figured it would work.

Rich

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Posted by mbinsewi on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 3:32 PM

Yep ! Yes

Mike.

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