I'm hoping you all can help me with a motor issue. A while ago, I purchased a blue box Proto 2000 SD9 from eBay. I have now just gotten around to adding a DCC sound decoder. I put in a TCS WOW Sound WDK-ATL-3 kit, which fits in the loco beautifully. Unfortunately, all of the internal wiring was black, so I tried to the best of my knowledge to add correct color wiring re: NMRA. When I finished the install and put the loco on my programming track, the sound on the loco started up immediately, the new led front and rear lights work great, but the motor does not run. Well, it does TRY to run. It makes a buzzing noise and I see the armiture trying to move, then it stops trying to turn and the buzzing continues.
Would the issue with the motor possible be caused by a mixup in the positive and negative motor wires, the right and left truck wires, both, or none of the above? I see the motor start to turn, then stop.
Looking for help!
Hi Neal,
Does the motor buzz all of the time it is on a powered DCC track or just when you apply the throttle? if it Buzzes all the time you might have a track power wire/ wires connected to the motor, usually that causes other issues to though, and you said the sound and functions were working like they should. If it only buzzes when you throttle up then it sounds like the motor is binding somehow. Did you test run it on DC before the decoder installation? Those blue box proto SD9s are getting pretty old, I'm wondering if the grease in the trucks solidified a bit or somthing else in the drive line is off. Hope you can get it figured out, I have one without sound, they're really nice running loco's when they work properly.
Good luck,
Jamie
Cape Vincent Southern Railroad
HO scale Horseshoe Curve in 5’x10’
My YouTube
Did it run OK in DC? Always a good idea to check first and check the current draw, too as Jamie mentions. As long as the motor is trying to turn the decoder wiring is probably OK. Won't matter if motor + or - are switched.
Try "rolling" each wheel with the locomotive upside down in your hand. If any of the wheels can be spun with pressure from your thumb you have a cracked gear.
So, I suspect there may be the cracked gear syndrome at play here? You can carefully pry the bottom cover off the trucks and check both the gear condition and grease.
I clean the grease out and replace it with the LaBelle PTFE stuff just as a routine precaution.
Good Luck, Ed
Extreme cases of cracked gears can jam the mechanism - not terribly likely, but it could be. If you turn the armature by hand, does it spin all the way around? If so - I'd say electricla issue, a buzz sounds like a direct connection between the track pickups and the motor, as menthioned. If it DOESN'T turn, then you're looking at a mechanical issue and the bozz is just the motor TRYING to spin.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The motor only buzzes when I apply the throttle. And no, stupid me, I did not test it on a DC track first. Lesson learned.
I can't spin any of the wheels with my thumb, but it's bery difficult to turn the motor over, so it may be an old grease problem.
Well the good news is it sounds like you got the decoder wiring all right. If it’s possible to remove the trucks from the locomotive you would be able spin each of the trucks gearing individually and get an idea where the binding is happening. If you open up the gearboxes to clean the old grease be on the lookout for foreign objects to. I once had a Kato SD70mac bind up after getting a single grain of ballast into a gearbox on one of its trucks. I was amazed that something so tiny could do that...
Thanks for all the suggestions! I decided to take everything apart and it turns out the rear cardan shaft was frozen. And of course, when I tried to work it loose, the shaft broke! So, now I need a new worm gear package. Does anyone know where I can get a replacement?
NealR...it turns out the rear cardan shaft was frozen.
Which part is broken?
A-Line makes some universal drive line sets that I have used for repairs to many Athearn and Proto clones.
https://ppw-aline.com/products/12031-coupling-kit
Shop around, sometimes these kits can be found on ebay or some of the discound hobby suppliers. It has been a while since I've had my Proto SD7/9s apart so I don't recall exactly what style of drive shaft is in there.
The shaft broke off.
It is identified in the parts list as 584739 SD9 Worm Gear Package w/worm retainer clip. (Contains: Bearings, washers, worms, joint bushings and cardan shaft)
Maybe give Walthers a call with that part number.
I'm not sure, but some Athearn parts can be used on the P2K's as well.
Mike.
My You Tube
I looked at the site and cant really tell what kind of drive I have...hex or not hex. The worm couplings on the hex drive look the same but I don't think the flywheel is a hex. It has the same t type end as the worm gear side. Any thoughts?
Is the drive shaft one piece with the T or dog bone shape on both ends? It can have a hex drive on the fly wheel side and the T shape on the worm gear side.
If it has the T shape on both ends, there would be a slot on the fly wheel side that the shaft fits into, just like the worm gear end.
I don't have a P2K SD7/9 to look at, but I do have some GP's. Ill go see what I have on mine.
Mike, thanks for the reply. The T shape is on both ends.
I checked mine, and all of the P2K's I have, have the "knuckle" (like a drive shaft) end, so mine are the spline shafts.
If they don't have a replacement shaft for the T on both ends, maybe the flywheel connection comes out and can be replaced with the hex. The hex part is only on the flywheel end.
call me dense , but did you break the dive shaft or the carden shaft ?
Same thing. Gerolamo Cardano is the guy who invented the things somewhere in the 1500's. Most people these days just call it a drive shaft, but some places still refer to it as a Cardan shaft.
Yea, that was a new one me, had to look it up.
Don't know if the flywheel connection is removeable, but I will give it a look. Haven't heard back from Walthers on a possible replacement yet. I may have to look into trying to change the whole thing over to a hex system if possible.
rrinker Same thing. Gerolamo Cardano is the guy who invented the things somewhere in the 1500's. Most people these days just call it a drive shaft, but some places still refer to it as a Cardan shaft. --Randy
was a mechanic for years and the two are not the same to me what i call a carden shaft is from diff to hub with a double u joint at one end , or a carden joint.
Well, curiosity strikes and I popped open one of my early L-L SD-7s. There's a very delicate looking drive shaft with what NWSL calls "Horned Balls" at each end:
L-L_SD-7hb by Edmund, on Flickr
L-L_SD-7 by Edmund, on Flickr
L-L_SD-7fw by Edmund, on Flickr
L-L_SD-7d by Edmund, on Flickr
Northwest Shortline has shafting and horned balls you can make up your own shafts with. I've done it for some other engines I have.
https://shop.osorail.com/category.sc?categoryId=42
IMG_5937_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
I don't know the exact size that would be a replacement for the Life-Like part but I could check in the next day or so. Or you could give NWSL an email. They would probably know.
Now it is POSSIBLE that Walthers redesigned all this. They have made changes to some of the drive-lines of the old L-L engines. My SD-7s are from the late 1990s.
Cheers, Ed
gmpullmandrive shaft with what NWSL calls "Horned Balls" at each end:
Well, there you have it. Makes dog bone sound boring.
I guess they did change the design alot! Each loco seems to have it's own parts.
What few I have, are GPs and in the gold box. They are both spline drive shaft type.
The P2K blue box E6 I have is also the spline drive shaft type.
The "horned balls" would be the way to go, when Athearn switched the last runs of BB locos, they had this type of shaft, and it is much quieter.
Looks like the grease is, too, from that third picture. From the 1990's, that is.
Yes, metal is better, but that plastic shaft is plenty strong. To break one would take some doing - maybe a fall to the floor, landing on the truck. I doubt the motor torque alone is enough to snap that. It IS possible that, since it is probably injection molded, you would get a bad one where the mold didn't fill properly and the people assembling it either didn't notice or didn't car that it didn't quite look right.
Either way - NWSL will certainly have what's needed to fix it up.
Thanks Ed! I will check out the website. You guys are the best!
I'd be surprised if Walthers ever changed the drivetrain of the SD7/9 locos from even way back in the 90s when LL produced it. It was always a smooth runner with no gear issues that affected the GP units. Horned ball is probably still the shape of the drive shafts.
You could try to be patient and hang out on ebay. Some times an old LL SD loco show up for parts, or even the parts themselves.
Since I'm sure producers like to use as many interchangeable parts as possible, maybe the drive shaft from an E unit or SD45 would work too, if any body would know.
- Douglas
I have an P2K blue box E6, as I mentioned in one of my post, and it is a drive shaft type with the knuckle on each end.
Also, as I mentioned, the GPs I have are all the gold box, and they have the drive shaft type with the knuckle on each end.
None of them have the horned ball. I'd have to kind of agree with Ed, in that there may have been design changes along the way.
You do SD7/9 on Ebay, some for cheap.
Ed,
I can't tell from the photos on NWSL's website if the horned balls will slip over the shafting or not. Are the pieces you have there in the last photo the 2.0 mm Universal kit? I measured the shaft and it looks to be 24mm from tip to tip.
Neal
Thank you all for the replies and ideas. I finally called Walthers on the off-chance that they have the SD9 Worm Gear package and lo and behold(!) they had one in stock. $10.00. Cheaper than getting another SD9 from eBay. Anyway, I should have it in a week and I'll put everything back together, re-install the decoder and I should be good to go!
Thanks again, guys!