railandsail .... and the like seems like an exercise in frustration. I'd like to address the elephant in the room, which is: what conditions would drive someone to want to do something as exotic as to power a plastic frog? Seriously. Sounds like they are suggesting foolish to me.
.... and the like seems like an exercise in frustration.
I'd like to address the elephant in the room, which is: what conditions would drive someone to want to do something as exotic as to power a plastic frog? Seriously.
Sounds like they are suggesting foolish to me.
There is nothing wrong or foolish about asking about powering a plastic frog and nobody is dissing the OP. Whether it makes sense or not depends on a range of factors, some of which we have discussed.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
rrinker Not sure what they started with, but they have switched over the Code 83 #6 double slip, and I doubt the tooling was worn out on that yet. And they announced the new code 70 line will be Unifrog right from the start. I don't follow the code 100 or code 75 product line so maybe some of that has been switched over - I saw on another forum somethign about having a true bullhead rail line now as well, and the turnouts for that are Unifrog.
Not sure what they started with, but they have switched over the Code 83 #6 double slip, and I doubt the tooling was worn out on that yet. And they announced the new code 70 line will be Unifrog right from the start. I don't follow the code 100 or code 75 product line so maybe some of that has been switched over - I saw on another forum somethign about having a true bullhead rail line now as well, and the turnouts for that are Unifrog.
So, it sounds as if the Insulfrog and Electrofrog versions will eventually be eliminated as the Unifrog becomes more widely available.
I agree with Randy that it seems hard to believe that the tooling was worn out on the Code 83 double slip and diamond crossing, since these two pieces of track work are far less popular than the regular turnout. I can't help but think that the tooling was changed to address the shorting issue on the converging rails, a common problem with the double slip and the diamond crossing.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain ... I emailed Peco to inquire about the future of the Unifrog, specifically whether they plan to convert the Code 83 #6 regular turnout. Their response was, "At present very few of our turnouts are Unifrog, but others will be as the tooling is replaced over time". So, it sounds as if the Insulfrog and Electrofrog versions will eventually be eliminated as the Unifrog becomes more widely available.
... I emailed Peco to inquire about the future of the Unifrog, specifically whether they plan to convert the Code 83 #6 regular turnout. Their response was, "At present very few of our turnouts are Unifrog, but others will be as the tooling is replaced over time".
The response you got from Peco is consistent with what all the other feedback I hve been reading; I'd say it's official.
I agree with Randy that it seems hard to believe that the tooling was worn out on the Code 83 double slip and diamond crossing, since these two pieces of track work are far less popular than the regular turnout. I can't help but think that the tooling was changed to address the shorting issue on the converging rails, a common problem with the double slip and the diamond crossing. Rich
I agree, the double slip seems relatively recent enough that the tooling wouldn't be worn out. There may be more to it that what we are hearing from Peco. Never-the-less, that's their story and it sounds like they aren't committing to any kind of order or timeline for replacing other versions of turnouts or track with unifrogs.
That being the case, anyone waiting on unifrog turnouts not made yet could be waiting an undetermined amount of time.
riogrande5761 That being the case, anyone waiting on unifrog turnouts not made yet could be waiting an undetermined amount of time.
richhotrain and since it seems likely that the Unifrog will replace the Insulfrog and the Electrofrog, there is the issue of stockpiling these current variations for future projects, if so desired. Rich
and since it seems likely that the Unifrog will replace the Insulfrog and the Electrofrog, there is the issue of stockpiling these current variations for future projects, if so desired.
Here is my read on stock piling.
- Yes for Electrofrog:
Some prefer Electrofrog terms of appearance (realistic appearance of solid rail and no plastic gaps) and electrofrog does not have the potential shorting issue that insulfrog have with their opposite polarity rail so close to each other.
- Maybe for Insulfrog:
Insulfrog and Unifrog have the same charactaristics if you never power the frog. They also "may" share in common the issue of shorting across the two rails of opposite polartity if a wide metal tread wheel bridges the two rails. Both can be mitiaged with nail polish. My guess is Insulfrog users won't need to stock pile since Unifrog will, be essentially the same but with the option to power the frog if ever needed.
YMMV but if it matters, both Electro and Insul frog turnouts are being manufactured and available presently, so get'em while you can if it matters.
I've already started to stock-pile Electrofrog Peco code 100 large turnouts and plan on adding more in the coming months sufficient to supply future needs.
I will probably, as funds allow, stock pile, at least a few code 83 Peco Electrofrog turnouts. Code 83 is less of an issue because MicroEngineering makes turnouts with metal frogs and finger flick motion as well, so there seem to be some good alternatives in code 83, while not so much in code 100.
Hello all,
riogrande5761It might be helpful if the OP came back and participated in the discussion and perhaps elaborate further the situation which might make one want to power a plastic frog vs a simple replacement with a turnout that has a metal frog.
I absolutely agree with riogrande5761!
My apologies for not chiming in sooner..."Some times, life get's in the way-of-life..."
I never expected all these great responses!!
What a great community, thank you all!!!
To answer the question of...
"But why not just replace (all of) the offending turnout(s)."
As has been mentioned- -by other responders to this thread- -the quantity and cost are my prime motivation for posing the question.
I have over 20 Atlas brand Snap Switch turnouts, along with a few unmodified PECO Insul-frog's.
I would have to replace all of these allong with the control devices- -currently Atlas Remote Dual-Soliniod units and PECO 110v Side Mounted Turnout Motors.
All are DC powered through CDU's and a separate power supply (wall-wart).
Yes, I realize that if I power the frogs I need a polarity switching device.
Adding the Atlas Snap-Relays would be more cost effective (#200) for me over trashing all the plastic frog turnouts.
I posed the question in the forums to tap into the vast knowledge of all the participants.
Again, thank you for all your responses.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Thanks for the back ground. Sounds like you only have a few Peco plastic frog insulfrog, it might not be cost prohibitive to replace them, especially over time. The Atlas turnouts have metal frogs right?
Nothing should stall oon a Peco Insulfrog, the frog plastic area is so tiny - in some cases TOO tiny, which is where you get shorts where the two rails come close together, but this really shoould only happen with out of spec wheels.
Now on an Atlas Snap Track turnout, the frog area is a much longer piece of plastic. However - I doubt these are any larger than the frogs on a #4 Atlas Custom Line turnout - and while I added wires to mine to power the frog, I found I didn;t have to. Even a relatively small 44 tonner could run over them without stalling. I don;t have any to test with, but I would be curious if a recently aquired Mantua 0-6-0 would make it, since that has a small pickup wheelbase than the 44 tonner. I suspect not, although the old early 60's metal one I had as a kid seemed to be ok over most sectional track plastic frog turnouts. Most of the split pickup Tyco diesels handled these with no problems as well.
I suspect stalling issues with Snap Track turnouts is not really because of the dead frog, but because of poor power to the points - the rivents wear out and get loose, dirt gets in the moving part which is also the electrical path, etc. This presents a potential dead section that's longer than the frog.Some small flexible wire jumpers can fix this - each closure rail should be jumpered to the adacent stock rail, and then a flexible wire jumper should link the closure rail to the point rail around the hing area. The closure rail tends to only get power from a bit of metal that is slipped under the stock rail around the point hinge area - this too can loosen up and lose contact over time. If that happens, then the entire closure rail can be dead - and that's a HUGE dead area. ANother way to bypass this is to make sure there are feeders on the diverging rails - this is perfectly OK with Atlas because under the frog, those diverging frog rails are one piece with the continuing closure rail. They are not power routing, so all legs have the same polarity at all times. So a couple of extra feeders - both diverging routes, plus if there aren't already feeders on the point side, goes a long way to making Atlas turnouts electrically reliable - regardless of frog power or lack thereof. These things can be done without removing the turnouts
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
riogrande5761The Atlas turnouts have metal frogs right?
They do not have metal frogs, they are all plastic.
That is the reason for the post.
jjdamnitThey do not have metal frogs, they are all plastic
The snap switches are plastic, other versions are metal. This thread is a candidate for being merged with the Coulda Shoulda Woulda thread.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
jjdamnit Hello all, riogrande5761 The Atlas turnouts have metal frogs right? That is the reason for the post. Hope this helps.
riogrande5761 The Atlas turnouts have metal frogs right?
It does help. I haven't actually looked at an Atlas snap switch closely for a good 30+ years. That would explain things! Doh!
This thread is a candidate for being merged with the Coulda Shoulda Woulda thread.
Yes!