Hi, I have a Northwest Short Line can motor on an Athearn F7 frame that I am trying to get to run on DCC. I tested the motor on DC after lightly lubricating both ends (It's been sitting in a box for years, and was never really run much when I bought it new (NWSL model #20325-9) and I let it run for 30-45 minutes (slow, fast, and also in reverse). It ran very smooth and quiet right from the start. Yet when I install a Soundtraxx Econamy 200 decoder to the motor (orange wire on + clip, gray wire on - clip, red wires to both truck wheel clips, and black wire to left pick-up), I can't get the motor to move. The decoder was from another locomotive, but I know it works. I have the right CV number set up, and I get sounds off the decoder so I know the decoder is getting power from the track. I must be missing something simple. Any thoughts??
Thanks. JRP
Did you put kapton or electrical tape underneath the motor? I'm assuming this is a blue box loco.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Did you do a decoder reset and then cycle track power on the program track? The headlight should have flashed about sixteen times for a good reset. As I recall I got a decoder ID also.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Yes, of course. I have the motor sitting on "sticky putty" so there is no chance of destroying the motor....and the motor works just fine in DC. It's getting it to run in DCC that I am trying to figure out.
Thanks.
Rich, no, I did not do that, but I will. Thanks for the reminder.
JRP
Got a meter? You should see about 12 volts AC between the red and black wires, and about 0-12 volts DC between orange and grey.
No meter? Go buy one. Nothing expensive or fancy.
The motor won't get power on the programming track.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I have a meter. But I only have a programming track and have always been able to program decoders and get motors to run on it. Not quite sure I understand. I'll need my programming track to program the decoder and test run the engine. I use JMRI to test all with. Why is this motor different from, say, an Athearn High Performance motor??
I suggested the programming track because no idea of your previus experince. Yes, I would say the motor is isolated. Did the headlight flash a number of times after the reset?
I have used a meter as mentioned for DCC and DC from the decoder. The only danger is smoking the decoder, not the motor but in your case you should be ok. Was there a loose wire touching the track anywhere?
If yoiu like playing, with a Scope, you will see twelve to fourteen volt pulses of varying width depending on the decoder speed. No pulses, zero speed. I did measurements some years ago.
Since I have the Power Cab, it was automatic for me to use the program track option but that is my way. It protected me once with a miswire. The Cab alerted me.
I had a TSU-1000 blow a driver chip a few months later and the decoder light flashed a number of times telling me of an issue. SoundTraxx told me after the repair.
JRP Yet when I install a Soundtraxx Econamy 200 decoder to the motor (orange wire on + clip, gray wire on - clip, red wires to both truck wheel clips, and black wire to left pick-up), I can't get the motor to move.
Yet when I install a Soundtraxx Econamy 200 decoder to the motor (orange wire on + clip, gray wire on - clip, red wires to both truck wheel clips, and black wire to left pick-up), I can't get the motor to move.
One option you might try is wiring it up for DC - connect the track power connections directly to the motor leads. If it runs OK on DC, then there was a problem with the harness wiring or with the decoder itself.
Be sure the decoder is disconnected when doing that. Applying power, even a small amoumt, into the motor terminals of the decoder is a quick way to kill it.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The OP already established that it ran on DC.
True confessions, I had an Atlas that ran on DC. In wiring it to the decoder, the little brass thingy that sits on top the brush kept coming off. I got it back on with half the spring hanging out. I could not see it for my cataracts. It actually ran a little bit then stopped.
I tried another decoder and no go. I thought I burned up 2 decoders. When I got may cataract fixed I saw the spring hanging out.
The OP established that the new motor ran on DC. As I read it, he ran the motor in both directions for a while to break it in. Then he talks about installing the motor and a DCC decoder in an engine, which now doesn't run. If so, I would suggest undoing the DCC wiring completely, and connecting the track power pickup wires to the motor leads. If that works on DC power, then the motor isn't shorting against the frame and the wiring from the track is correct. So, since the motor works OK and the engine works OK, it was the wiring of the DCC harness was incorrect.
That's how I tested the motor on DC...connected track power p/u wires to the motor leads. Now I have the decoder wired to the motor (I have done these numerous times)...red wires to truck clips (right wheel p/u), gray wire to negative motor lead, orange wire to positive motor lead, and black wire to left wheel p/u (attached to a screw that is drilled into the frame....same as all the other units I have successfully installed before and tested on a program track using JMRI. The decoder sound works on the speaker I temporarily installed. No lights as I have not done the lights yet nor have I installed the shell. Just wanted to see that the motor works. Again, the question I have is why is this motor different than an Athearn High Performance motor?? I don't know the answer to that. Looking to you guys to maybe find out. Thanks.
You don't sound like a newbie. If you did the reset that Rich suggested and that didn't help, and you've insulated the motor, connected the wires correctly in a working motor then it must be a bad decoder.
edit assuming that the pickup from the wheels and trucks is functioning properly
Test tehj decoder by hooking the red and black to the track and the orange and greay to a known working motor (doesn;t have to be in a loco - easier if it isn't) and verify it can run that motor. If the sounds respond I suspect the motor drive is faulty. Or you have the decoder in consist with another. That's why a reset is suggested. If in doubt, program CV19 to 0 to be doubly sure.
Can you set and read back CVs? Do you get error messages? Have you tried the motor in forward and reverse?
My JMRI system was able to read the decoder on the motor. No error message, and the decoder has sound when I turn on the system, but no movement forward or reverse. I'm going to change out decoders with a new one just to see if that makes a difference. Stand by......
What does CV19 read? If it's not 0, it will behave the way you said - readback will work because the motor load is present, but addressing the actual decoder, you can control the functions but not the motor.
CV19 reads 0.
Just curious, I'm assuming when you add track power, the decoder's 'diesel rumble' sound revs up like it's moving - even though it's just sitting there? If so, suppose as a long shot you could make sure CV 3 is at zero. I had a similar problem once and finally found if I let the engine sit for a while it eventually started moving. Turns out I had somehow set CV3 to like 250 and it took several minutes for it ramp up to where it was enough power to move the engine.
Except for the new motor being better, it shouldn't make any difference to where one would work and the other not. I'm interested to see what trying another decoder will do (and trying the Tsunami in another engine too). Could be something as simple as a bad wire in the decoder harness, or one of the pins on the Tsunami decoder being broken off.
All, finally had luck. Two things I had to do. 1. get the correct CV entered (after finally able to read back). And 2, I had the power trucks on backward. Front was in rear and rear in front. Yes, it does make a difference. Got this unit working. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and advice.