Lighting Bus Adjacent to DCC Bus?

[LarryZ]

Hello, everyone!

I'm getting ready to begin adding lighting to my layout (you can see my work at http://www.piedmontsub.com/Layout.shtml ). I want to run a 12V DC bus to provide power for signals and crossing flashers. I've already got wiring staples under the layout from putting in the DCC track bus and it would be relatively easy to run the lighting bus through those as well. I have it in the back of my mind, though, that there would be an issue with that. Am I just making that up?

Thanks,
Larry

[gmpullman]

Hi, Larry and —

There's no reason why a lighting buss can't share the same wire-run as the DCC power buss. Where the problem MAY arise is in long parallel runs of the network cable routing.

In my case I use Digitrax and I have several runs of Loconet unshielded six-conductor (Telco RJ) modular flat wire and where possible I try to avoid having close proximity to any power-carrying wiring. 

As far as using staples, eye screws or such, I have found that rather than thread the wire through a staple it is better to use "Ty-raps" or Zip-ties to anchor the wire to the supporting eye or staple. I often leave the tie fairly loose untill I'm sure all the wiring is run. Then go back and close them up a little or add more as needed.

If uou have to run more wire or need to access one in a run it is much easier to clip-and-replace a zip-tie than try to thread a wire out of a staple.

Good Luck, Ed

[LarryZ]

Ed,

Great info. Thanks. Exactly what I needed. Off to crawl under the layout...

Larry

[richhotrain]

gmpullman

There's no reason why a lighting buss can't share the same wire-run as the DCC power buss. Where the problem MAY arise is in long parallel runs of the network cable routing.

In my case I use Digitrax and I have several runs of Loconet unshielded six-conductor (Telco RJ) modular flat wire and where possible I try to avoid having close proximity to any power-carrying wiring. 

Ed, can you elaborate on what you mean by "network cable routing"?

I am planning to run a series of 14 gauge bus wires together under the layout to reach various circuit breaker protected power districts at the far end of my layout. These bus wires are typical insulated household copper wiring. Do you see any issues with running these bus wires together until they separate to reach the various power districts?

Regaring "eye screws", I am using them on my new layout, and they do a great job of keeping the bus wires organized and firmly in place.

Rich

[gmpullman]

richhotrain

Ed, can you elaborate on what you mean by "network cable routing"?

 

Hi, Rich,

I was refering to the DCC "Control Bus" that would connect any of the "network" devices around the layout.

 

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201799499-NCE-DCC-Cables-Explained

I use Digitrax so their architecture is the Loconet cable.

There's a lot here but it is an example of LocoNet wiring:

https://dccwiki.com/LocoNet#LocoNet_Basics_-_An_Introduction

Whole lot more on LocoNet here:

http://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB714/loconet-overview/

 

richhotrain

Do you see any issues with running these bus wires together until they separate to reach the various power districts?

None at all other than to keep the bundles orderly in case you want to access individual wires for some reason. I was lucky and my work had a bunch of PVC wire trough that I used for some of the main runs of power feeders. There's a bundle of wire in there about two-inches in diameter.

Hope that helps, Ed

[richhotrain]

ahh, OK, thanks for that additional info, Ed.

So, I assume that you would see no difficulty with routing a series of bus wires together until they separate to power separate power districts further down the layout?

Rich

[gmpullman]

richhotrain

I assume that you would see no difficulty with routing a series of bus wires together until they separate to power separate power districts further down the layout?

That's exactly how I ran my eight power districts (off two boosters) plus several reverse loops and a separate booster for the engine terminal. Pretty much like a grape vine starting out from the boosters/breakers, out through a "trunk-line" then splitting off near the geographic areas on the layout where feeders were located.

In the beginning my mindset was to group tracks together including the main lines, sidings and yard tracks. I've since divided up my power districts to more logically follow how the trains are actually running.

For example I have the main line, secondary runners, sidings then down to yard tracks all on separate breakers. If an engine derails in a yard or siding it won't shut-down the trains running on the main. 

I guess what I'm saying it to relate more to operation when choosing which tracks to include in each power district or breaker assignment rather than dividing up the layout into grids, like city blocks, so every train in that grid stops if there is a short.

Have Fun! Ed

[richhotrain]

gmpullman

 

In the beginning my mindset was to group tracks together including the main lines, sidings and yard tracks. I've since divided up my power districts to more logically follow how the trains are actually running.

For example I have the main line, secondary runners, sidings then down to yard tracks all on separate breakers. If an engine derails in a yard or siding it won't shut-down the trains running on the main. 

I guess what I'm saying it to relate more to operation when choosing which tracks to include in each power district or breaker assignment rather than dividing up the layout into grids, like city blocks, so every train in that grid stops if there is a short. 

Exactly.

Thanks for those additional comments, Ed. 

Very helpful and informative.

Rich

[rrinker]

 Only problem you might have with routing multiple bus wires together inthe same bundle is if you use detection or Railcom with the sensor devices centralized - ie, at the start of those bus runs that parallel each other. If you aren't doing this, or use detection where the sensor is out at the far end near where the bus feeds the actual section being detected, it shouldn't be an issue. The club layout has multiple bus lines, both DCC adn accessory power, running under each module, and they are all twisted together. So you have a PowerPole connector on one end, 5 or more #14 or maybe #12 wires twisted together the length of the section, and another PowerPole connector on the other end. At points along this (loosely) twised bundle, taps are made to feed local tracks, usually via sub blocks where the current sense transformer donut for the detection sub block is around the wire connecting the main bus to the local sub bus.  This has operated reliably for years now.

 What you DON'T EVER want to do is run household AC level power parallel with low voltage layout power.

                                       --Randy