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Using a DC power pack as a stand in until I get DCC

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  • Member since
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  • From: Buffalo, NY
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Using a DC power pack as a stand in until I get DCC
Posted by Lonehawk on Monday, April 2, 2018 2:28 PM

Hi all,

So the idea I'm looking at is fairly straightforward.  I want to wire up my track for DCC (bus, sub-bus, feeders, the whole nine yards), but hook up a DC powerpack temporarily (I have a decent one - MRC Tech 2 with 2 cabs), so that I can test my track and run trains.  As it stands, I only have DC locos, and they can't be converted. I know you can run a DC loco on DCC, but I don't trust my luck that something won't go wrong.  

I've seen a lot about converting from DC to DCC, but nothing about using wiring that's set up for DCC and running a DC powerpack.  I believe it should work, since I'm just going to run the track.  Switches will be manual, and I have no accessories planned for DCC. No lights, no animated buildings, just the track.  The only glitch may be the reversing loops, but I understand I can use a DPDT switch on them and then wire in the ARs later.  I've also heard of AR's that work with both DC and DCC, so I may look into those as well.

The reason I'm looking at this is because after spending an estimated $1300 for benchwork and track, I'm going to want to run something, and not wait a few more months to budget for the DCC system and a loco (I'll be literally buying materials piece by piece to get to where the track is laid and ready to run trains).  So I see this as an easy way to recycle some stuff I already have and get to the operations part while I amass the funds to make it better.  But I wanted to get the opinion of some wiser heads with a bit more experience. 

So, could I get away with powering track on a DCC-wired layout with a DC power pack temporarily so I can run trains, or is it a recipe for frustration?

- Adam


When all else fails, wing it!

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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, April 2, 2018 2:35 PM

Yes you can.  I run dual mode either DC or DCC on my layout.  I use a relay to switch from DCC mode to DC mode, everything works great.
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
  
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by mbinsewi on Monday, April 2, 2018 2:42 PM

Positively!  Thats the way I started out. Wired for DCC, gapping both rails when I made blocks, bus line, and feeders to all.

The switch to DCC only required removing the DC power pack, and hooking up the DCC command station in it's place.

I don't have any "Y"s or reversing loops, so I had nothing extra to mess with.

Mike.

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Posted by richg1998 on Monday, April 2, 2018 2:52 PM

A club I belonged to did that for many years when we built the layout in the 1980's. Fourteen blocks. Only one reversing loop with a DPDT switch. Rewired for DCC.

I do not know of a DCC reverser that works for DC and DCC, only DCC. Maybe there is one now.

When you build the layout, be careful of any possibilities of shorts. Check many times as you wire. Over the years in may forums, once in a while someone wires a layout and never checks for shorts until they finally try to run trains.

Some ohm meters have a tone when you get zero ohms, a short. Clip the leads to the input part of the layout as you wire.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by richg1998 on Monday, April 2, 2018 3:00 PM

Many non sound decoders are quite small. I have done a few.HO scale though.

Do current test on your locos. Many decoders good for one amp. Isolate the motor contacts from the loco frames.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by UNCLEBUTCH on Monday, April 2, 2018 9:14 PM

$1300 ?  that must be some layout

To my understanding;

DC is 2 wires, one to each rail, never the two shall meet

DCC is 2 wires, one to each rail,never the two shall meet.

You can take that as far as you want,or untill your head hurts, but thats the basic

When I switched over, I took 2 wires off the power pack, and connected the 2 wires to the comand station. A minute or two,I was running DCC

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Posted by maxman on Monday, April 2, 2018 9:33 PM

Lonehawk
I know you can run a DC loco on DCC

I don't see that anyone has commented on this statement.  But it is not correct unless you have a Digitrax system.

Unless you meant run a DCC loco on DC.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Monday, April 2, 2018 9:49 PM

Lonehawk
I know you can run a DC loco on DCC, but I don't trust my luck that something won't go wrong.

Maxman is right, nobody has responded to this part, I had to go back and re-read your post, to find it.

I did try, and have run, DC locos, all Athearn, on DCC powered track, and I would not do it anymore. 

BUT, as Digitrax recommends, which is what I have, use address 00.  I didn't do that, I just put the loco on track and ran it, I didn't know, or read enough into the manual, to learn this,  so, you have to try this and see how it works. I never did, I went to DCC.

My experience was a a very noisy motor, and the noise seemed to disipate as I inceased the speed, but I never tried it again, and I never will.  It just didn't sound right.

Mike.

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Posted by richg1998 on Tuesday, April 3, 2018 12:42 AM

The way the OP wordered this, I did not think he had a DCC system that could run a DC loco.

No comments by the OP so far.

I am seeing assumptions.

I see a DC power pack with two cabs. No DCC. He is planning DCC in the future.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by richg1998 on Tuesday, April 3, 2018 12:57 AM

To the OP, one pack unless you can beak up the layout into two blocks.

Our club had four blocks before DCC so we could do it but you are starting with a DCC wired layout.

Have you a layout on paper yet that you could post? Sounds like quite a project.

How many operators are you considering?

Cable control or wireless?

Reverse loops or crossovers?

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by Lonehawk on Tuesday, April 3, 2018 7:05 AM

UNCLEBUTCH

$1300 ?  that must be some layout

 

Well, I think it will be.  Smile  But that's what the finishing materials for the room, plus benchwork materials, track, roadbed and wire come out to.  And tax.  8.75% sales tax here.  The biggest single chunk is the switches.  I'm going to have 17, so that's not gonna be cheap.  So by using the power pack, I'd get to run trains before sinking another $150 into the DCC unit.

- Adam


When all else fails, wing it!

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Posted by Lonehawk on Tuesday, April 3, 2018 7:07 AM

richg1998

The way the OP wordered this, I did not think he had a DCC system that could run a DC loco.

No comments by the OP so far.

I am seeing assumptions.

I see a DC power pack with two cabs. No DCC. He is planning DCC in the future.

Rich

 

 

Exactly right, Rich.  I have a DC powerpack and DC locos.  I will switch to DCC, but I want to use the DC pack and DC locos to start running trains as soon as reasonably feasible, and upgrade to DCC equipment later.

- Adam


When all else fails, wing it!

  • Member since
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  • From: Buffalo, NY
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Posted by Lonehawk on Tuesday, April 3, 2018 7:10 AM

richg1998

To the OP, one pack unless you can beak up the layout into two blocks.

Our club had four blocks before DCC so we could do it but you are starting with a DCC wired layout.

Have you a layout on paper yet that you could post? Sounds like quite a project.

How many operators are you considering?

Cable control or wireless?

Reverse loops or crossovers?

Rich

 

Yes, I can upload a layout pic.  I've discovered as I was planning my wiring that I'll need to move a few things, but the plan I have is good enough to transfer to the subroadbed.

There will be at most two operators.  When I upgrade to DCC, I'll have cabled cabs, and there will be two reverse loops.  

- Adam


When all else fails, wing it!

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Posted by bearman on Tuesday, April 3, 2018 7:11 AM

Lonehawk, it can be done but establish your power district and wire the buses and feeders for when you transfer to DCC, and after you purchase the DCC system...lose the DC power pack.  And dont forget the circuit breakers.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, April 3, 2018 7:12 AM

OK, as I understood your statement, you want to try and run DC locos once you switch track power to DCC.

You can, I don't, I tried it and didn't trust it.  I was more worried about destroying the DCC system than I was my older Athearn BB lococ.

Mike.

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Posted by bearman on Tuesday, April 3, 2018 7:15 AM

No, Mike, I think he wants to wire the layout for DCC and use a DC power pack until he gets the DCC system.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, April 3, 2018 7:21 AM

Lonehawk
I know you can run a DC loco on DCC, but I don't trust my luck that something won't go wrong.

I know that Bearman, I was responding to part of the OP's statement that Rich said nobody responded to.

Never mind, Laugh

Read my first post, I know what he wants to do, just what I did.

Mike.

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Posted by bearman on Tuesday, April 3, 2018 7:26 AM

Gotcha, Mike.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by Lonehawk on Tuesday, April 3, 2018 7:39 AM

bearman

Lonehawk, it can be done but establish your power district and wire the buses and feeders for when you transfer to DCC, and after you purchase the DCC system...lose the DC power pack.  And dont forget the circuit breakers.

 

Thanks, Bear.  I've been reading a lot on the how-to's and where-for's of wiring, since electrical's not my strongest game, and I plan to do just that.  Instead of losing the DC pack though, I'll either use it with another train set elsewhere, or use it to power AC accessories, if needed. 

As Boromir might say: One does not simply throw away perfectly good equipment that may find use elsewhere.  Wink

- Adam


When all else fails, wing it!

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Posted by maxman on Tuesday, April 3, 2018 9:49 AM

mbinsewi
Lonehawk I know you can run a DC loco on DCC, but I don't trust my luck that something won't go wrong.

I know that Bearman, I was responding to part of the OP's statement that Rich said nobody responded to.

I made no assumptions at all.  I thought that it was pretty clear that there was not a DCC system initially involved.  However, regardless of what the OP intended, that's not what he typed.

Having browsed through many of the posts on this particular forum, it seems to me that being accurate in thought and typing is pretty important.  Witness the recent post about an individual who was having an issue with his DCC system.  How many pages of discussion did it take to finally drag out the fact that he had the DCC system AND his dc power pack hooked up to the track at the same time?

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Tuesday, April 3, 2018 10:14 AM

I have a Lenz DCC system.  It's another one of those that allows you to run DC locomotives.  I've tried it a few times.  Yes, it works, and I've not seen any damage done to either the engines or the DCC system.

But, it's terrible.  Besides the obnoxious noise, the engines run very slowly.  They can't go through a DCC reversing loop with an auto-reverser, either.

The best thing about running a DC engine on your DCC layout is that you will very quickly put all your DC engines on a shelf until you convert them to DCC.  That's what I did, and I was glad when the job was done.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by bearman on Tuesday, April 3, 2018 11:27 AM

Lonehawk, when you do the wiring, proceed methodically and deliberately.  Color code your wires and wire each power district/block individually and make sure it runs ok before wiring the next district/block.  As for the DC power pack, that's fine just don't try to mix up the two.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by BATMAN on Tuesday, April 3, 2018 12:59 PM

 I had one loco, Atlas Gold Series when I started building. I didn't want to buy a DCC outfit until I got the mainline down because I didn't know how long it would take me with all my other commitments. I didn't want it to get outdated before I even started by just sitting there waiting for me to finish. So I grabbed a fifty-year-old transformer I had and hooked it up. When I had the mainline done I ordered up my DCC system.

As far as startup cost goes, I spent about $8000.00 the first year and maybe $300.00 a year since. In fact, I have a $750.00 credit at PWRS. It is going towards my two Rapido Royal Hudsons.

Ten boxes of Walthers track, forty Walthers turnouts, Loco's, rolling stock, NCE Radio DCC unit, lumber, foam, cork, wire, and all the other stuff you don't think of. It all adds up fast.

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by Lonehawk on Tuesday, April 3, 2018 2:36 PM

BATMAN

As far as startup cost goes, I spent about $8000.00 the first year and maybe $300.00 a year since. In fact, I have a $750.00 credit at PWRS. It is going towards my two Rapido Royal Hudsons.

Ten boxes of Walthers track, forty Walthers turnouts, Loco's, rolling stock, NCE Radio DCC unit, lumber, foam, cork, wire, and all the other stuff you don't think of. It all adds up fast.

 
Yeah, it does.  And not being made of money, I'm planning it all out very carefully and re-using as much as I can, at least until I can upgrade.  That way, I can get running, and ease into other items that would otherwise take a while to account for.
 
Planning... not just a good idea.  Wink

- Adam


When all else fails, wing it!

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