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Frog Juicers for polarity control

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  • Member since
    March 2018
  • 2 posts
Frog Juicers for polarity control
Posted by BFlak on Tuesday, March 20, 2018 3:51 PM

Last year I converted my old DC layout to DCC. Unfortunately because of its age the layout contains multiple old “non-DCC-friendly” Shinohara turnouts with non-isolated frogs and was wired with common return wiring. Two of the Shinohora turnouts are double-crossover types and when set in the crosser position make the layout intact a double track mainline with reversing loops on either end. Both tracks and the mushiness are double-gapped where the the two crosser turnouts are located resulting that effectively there are 3 separate blocks but they are all powered from my Digitrax DCS 210 Command Booster. Till now I have been manually controlling the polarity in each block using DPDT switches. Recently a friend has given me a HF J003U Hex Frog Juicer and I was wondering whether I could use this to automatically reverse polarity in the blocks as required when the turnouts are set for crossover. If so could you please diagram and/or explain to me how this would need to be wired. I tried connecting the Track Bus Contacts - one to common return and one to the power wire from the Digitrax Command Station. Connections 1+2 to the common wire and red power to wire to block 1 and Connections 3+4 again to common and red power to block 2. I greatly would appreciate any assistance that you can provide.

 

Thanks

 

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Tuesday, March 20, 2018 10:37 PM

Wihout a diagram, it's impossible to definitively specify the arrangement.  What you are really doing is setting up a pair of reversing loops, for which an auto-reverser is probably the best solution.  A single frog juicer controls only one rail, while an auto-reverser controls two, but you could use two juicers to control two rails.

The most likely arrangement would be to wire the center of the loops normally, and then the two ends of the loops through the juicers.  It's not a good idea to wire reverse loops one inside the other, as the reversers or juicers would end up fighting each other.

I don't know the current capacity of juicers.  It doesn't take much to juice one frog, but if you're running a whole loop on it, it may be more than the juicer could handle.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 9:16 AM

The dual juicer can be used as a reverser or a juicer.  I suppose a hex juicer could do to reversing loops.

A diagram is always useful in these discussions.  A spell checker, not so much unless your intact layout really suffers from mushiness.

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Pa.
  • 3,361 posts
Posted by DigitalGriffin on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 9:35 AM

I created a wiring diagram for such an occasion.

 

You just need

 

Two tortoises, a diode, a dpdt relay switch and a 3 position rotary switch.  It's actually simple.

If you use two frog juicers they may end up fighting each other.  I consider frog juicers unnecessary on all but the most complicated switch yard setups.  A tortoises edge contacts will do what you need for less money than an interior switch motor + juicer.

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Pa.
  • 3,361 posts
Posted by DigitalGriffin on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 12:04 PM

Here is the diagram.  The DPDT are easily replaceable with a 3 position rotary.  If you want part numbers, let me know.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm164/yellowblur07/DoubleCrossOver_zps9qz7jyb8.png

 

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

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