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Installed my first sound decoder in an HO Atlas RS1 (Old one - no board)

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Installed my first sound decoder in an HO Atlas RS1 (Old one - no board)
Posted by gdelmoro on Sunday, January 07, 2018 3:13 PM

Hi all, for christmas i got a new TCS WOW 121 Diesel SDecoder for Atlas RS1. can’t believe it worked!  

The speaker. Install was the worst part.   The enclosure I got did not fit in the shell. I had to sand down the sides and cut off the extensions to make something like the white enclosure below.

I had the wiring diagram but the length of wires is a learning curve.

I don’t have lights yet because I didn’t have the LED’s.  TCS says the resistance is built into the board.

Is the tinkering with the speaker enclosure normal? 

Any recommendations for LED’s?

Gary

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Posted by BigDaddy on Sunday, January 07, 2018 3:55 PM

I'm surprised you found that much room.  I used a sugar cube, so I have no experience with that enclosure.

https://www.litchfieldstation.com/product/loudspeaker-15mm-x-11mm-8-ohms-with-4pc-sound-chamber-kit/

The usual DCC shops carry 3mm 12 v leds.  Tonys' Streamline Backshop and Litchfield Station, if you only need a couple.  If you want a bunch, Ebay Some come with resistors, which are too small  470 ohms.  Ebay has resistors too.

 

Henry

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Posted by gdelmoro on Sunday, January 07, 2018 5:21 PM

Thanks Henry

Gary

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, January 11, 2018 5:04 AM

gdelmoro

Any recommendations for LED’s? 

Doesn't your loco already have Golden White LEDs?

Even the oldest models from 2003 came equipped with them.

Rich

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, January 11, 2018 7:10 AM

 2003? That's a late model one. The OLD ones go back way more than that, the Kato made ones have the plastic "circuit board" and one single light bulb sitting in the middle. No LEDs. Not even directional lighting. 

                          --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, January 11, 2018 8:25 AM

rrinker

 2003? That's a late model one. The OLD ones go back way more than that, the Kato made ones have the plastic "circuit board" and one single light bulb sitting in the middle. No LEDs. Not even directional lighting. 

                          --Randy 

Sad

Are you stalking me, Randy?   Laugh

Rich

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Posted by gdelmoro on Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:41 AM

richhotrain
 
gdelmoro

Any recommendations for LED’s? 

 

 

Doesn't your loco already have Golden White LEDs?

 

Even the oldest models from 2003 came equipped with them.

Rich

 

 

No these re older Atlas.  There was one GOW bulb in the center and two Clear plastic pieces that transfered the light to the front and rear bulbs. 

Gary

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:52 AM

gdelmoro

No these re older Atlas.  There was one GOW bulb in the center and two Clear plastic pieces that transfered the light to the front and rear bulbs.  

Nuts!  Randy is right once again. Super Angry

Rich

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:33 AM

 I guess you missed the post where I mentioend I have like a half dozen of these in Undec awaiting painting and decoder installs - RS3's for me rather than RS1s, but similar vintage. Because Reading had more RS3's than any other model first gen loco, and RS3's are my favorite diesel of all time. So my model railroad will have more of them than any other first gen power. That's 6 of those, plus 2 Athearns and 2 MDCs. And as Bowser is now redoing various phases using the old Stewart tooling - I'll likely get a few of those too. Big Smile

                                  --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:47 AM

Randy, I started into HO scale and DCC back in January 2004.

Did HO scale and DCC exist before 2004?   Devil

Rich

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, January 11, 2018 1:33 PM

 DCC did, but not for HO. It was only suitable for large scale and up, since it used tubes and not solid state electronics.

                                  --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by gdelmoro on Friday, January 12, 2018 5:58 PM

Ok so I got some 12v 3mm LED’s from Amazon but they have about 22ga wire on them and when i solder them to the pads they don’t work.

https://www.amazon.com/LAOMAO-Bulbs-White-Pre-Wired-Parties/dp/B06Y22DQKL/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1515801240&sr=8-5&keywords=12v+3mm+led

They seem to have a resistor wired in too.  can some one point me to the correct LEDs  Sigh

Gary

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Posted by tstage on Friday, January 12, 2018 6:33 PM

Gary,

What pads are you soldering the LEDs onto?  Are they 1.5 3V or 12V?  If 12V then you don't need the resistor...or a much smaller one.

From the Amazon link it does look like there are resistors under the heat shrink.  I didn't see a resistor value mentioned though in the description.

Tom

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, January 12, 2018 6:41 PM

ANY LED that says it's a "12V LED" has a resistor - there is no such thing as a 12V LED. it's just an LED with the correct resistor for 12V already installed.

 

 I assume you also have the AK-MB1, since the WOW121 is a 21 pin decoder and thoose old locos have no board of any sort, let alone a modern 21 pin connector. If so - you just need plain LEDs. The instructions say the motherboard already has resistors. 

                              --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by gdelmoro on Saturday, January 13, 2018 6:39 AM

rrinker

ANY LED that says it's a "12V LED" has a resistor - there is no such thing as a 12V LED. it's just an LED with the correct resistor for 12V already installed.

 

 I assume you also have the AK-MB1, since the WOW121 is a 21 pin decoder and thoose old locos have no board of any sort, let alone a modern 21 pin connector. If so - you just need plain LEDs. The instructions say the motherboard already has resistors. 

                              --Randy

 

 

When you say plain LEDs, I can just get any 12v 3mm? Or do I need 1.5v 3mm

Gary

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, January 13, 2018 7:12 AM

I think Randy answered that in his first paragraph.  Since the motherboard comes with resistors, all you need is a 1.5 3V LED without the added in-line resistor.  If you don't have one handy just carefully remove the heat shrink and unsolder the in-line resistor of one of the LEDs you purchased.  Once the resistor is removed: Slide on some new heat shrink and resolder the 22ga wire back onto the LED pin.

Tom

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Posted by gdelmoro on Saturday, January 13, 2018 8:52 AM

tstage

Gary,

What pads are you soldering the LEDs onto?  Are they 1.5 3V or 12V?  If 12V then you don't need the resistor...or a much smaller one.

From the Amazon link it does look like there are resistors under the heat shrink.  I didn't see a resistor value mentioned though in the description.

Tom

 

They are soldered to the Fwd and Rev and Common Bl pads.

Gary

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, January 13, 2018 9:19 AM

According to this TCS webpage, the motherboard does come with built-in resistors.  So you'll need to remove the in-line resistor for your 12V LEDs to make them 1.5 3V.

Tom

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, January 13, 2018 11:43 AM

gdelmoro

When you say plain LEDs, I can just get any 12v 3mm? Or do I need 1.5v 3mm 

Gary, just get these, resistors not required on your install.  These LEDs are the ones used in the TCS decoder install that Tom provided the link for.

http://tcsdcc.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_32_76_88&products_id=276

Rich

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, January 13, 2018 12:08 PM

 You need just plain LEDs. Not ones that mention anything about voltage in the item description  white LEDs are usualy about 3.5V, but the voltage isn;t want matters anyway, it's the current. When the decoder or motherboard says that LED resistance is built in, you just hook plain ordinary LEDs to it. 

 Save those 12V LEDs you bought for structure lighting, because the resistor is more likely than not too small for use on DCC decoders (probably ok not to blow them up, but VERY bright). For hooking LEDs to decoders that do NOT have built in current limiting for them, you want nothing less than a 1K resistor, and in many cases an even higher value will be needed to get a decent light output that's not like looking into the sun.

                       --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by Mark R. on Saturday, January 13, 2018 2:36 PM

rrinker

ANY LED that says it's a "12V LED" has a resistor - there is no such thing as a 12V LED. it's just an LED with the correct resistor for 12V already installed.

 

 I assume you also have the AK-MB1, since the WOW121 is a 21 pin decoder and thoose old locos have no board of any sort, let alone a modern 21 pin connector. If so - you just need plain LEDs. The instructions say the motherboard already has resistors. 

                              --Randy

 

 

 

Gotta be something internal then - no exterior resistor on these 12 volt LEDs ....

http://www.led-switch.com/12%20volt%20LED.htm

Mark.

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, January 13, 2018 6:45 PM

They are either just using the same picture as regular LEDs, or they are internal. The semiconductir chemistry of the diode junction determines the voltage. Classic red LEDs are usually 2.1-2.5 volts, other colors can go to 2.7V, and white ones are almost all 3.5-3.7V. 

 I suspect the actual product you receive from that company will have a resistor heat shrinked on one lead like the ones the OP bought. There are some witht he resistor inside the casing - just like those blinker LEDs. They could be that way too. The ones to get to verify it would be the ones in a water clear case, you would be able to see a resistor if it was incorporated internally.

                                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Mark R. on Saturday, January 13, 2018 7:45 PM

rrinker

They are either just using the same picture as regular LEDs, or they are internal. The semiconductir chemistry of the diode junction determines the voltage. Classic red LEDs are usually 2.1-2.5 volts, other colors can go to 2.7V, and white ones are almost all 3.5-3.7V. 

 I suspect the actual product you receive from that company will have a resistor heat shrinked on one lead like the ones the OP bought. There are some witht he resistor inside the casing - just like those blinker LEDs. They could be that way too. The ones to get to verify it would be the ones in a water clear case, you would be able to see a resistor if it was incorporated internally.

                                      --Randy

 

 

I have had some of them, and there is no external resistor attached to them .... and they do work on 12 volts. I even inspected it with a magnifying glass and see no component inside the epoxy casing. Only thing I can figure is there is some kind of internal resistance built into the semi-conductor that isn't visible.

Mark. 

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, January 13, 2018 8:30 PM

The most likely place would be on the larger metal tab, directly below the the diode well. The other side, with the little whisker wire, would probably not be a good place to add anything. The 'diode' part of the large pad I'll bet is a bit thicker on these compared to 'regular' LEDs. It doesn;t take much to make a resistor - a tiny bit of carbon, look at how small SMD resistors are.

 Guarantee it's in there somewhere though.

                                             --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, January 13, 2018 11:59 PM

gdelmoro
Is the tinkering with the speaker enclosure normal? 

Reducing the size of a speaker enclosure is very common, but it is not necessarily the most desirable solution. If you already have the speaker and enclosure then by all means, cut the enclosure down, but I would suggest that you look into the 'sugar cube' speakers that have been mentioned in previous answers. They are much easier to fit into restricted spaces and they sound great!

This is a Canadian example:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-Replacement-Earpiece-Ear-Piece-Speaker-for-Apple-iPhone-4-4G-4S-4GS/161340661515?hash=item2590a71f0b:g:b0YAAOxyeZNTSuUk

All sugar cube speakers must have an enclosure. I make my own enclosures out of .040" styrene. Just make sure they are sealed tight.

These links provide a wealth of information about using 'sugar cube' speakers:

http://www.sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/sugarcubespeakernotes.html

http://www.sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/wiringmultispeakers.html

Dave

 

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Posted by gdelmoro on Sunday, January 14, 2018 7:13 AM

richhotrain

 

 
gdelmoro

When you say plain LEDs, I can just get any 12v 3mm? Or do I need 1.5v 3mm 

 

 

Gary, just get these, resistors not required on your install.  These LEDs are the ones used in the TCS decoder install that Tom provided the link for.

 

http://tcsdcc.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_32_76_88&products_id=276

Rich

 

Got them!

Gary

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