I've found the CV54 Auto Tune always resulted in my engines running overall more slowly .... no idea why, it's just the way the decoder interpolates the BEFM from the motor and optimizes the settings. DO NOT ask me HOW it does that !
As you discovered, having set your speed table to where you liked it, the Auto Tune now makes it run too slow. Going back in to CV5, you can pick up the pace again. If you have the speed table activated, CV6 has no bearing on it - just CV2 and CV5. If you have the speed table off, then you use the three point curve utilizing CV2, CV5 and CV6.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Thank you, Mark.
I'll go in and muck around a bit more, later.
Ed
7j43kI have to ask, why would you ever think to ask if someone would pick speed curve values at random? Do you really think anyone would do that? Do you really think I might? Do you see that a person might see that as insulting? Did you mean it that way?
Whoa, big guy, no insult was intended. The reason I asked the question was because you were speaking about a speed curve and changing speed curve step values but it wasn't clear if you were changing only the CV's for steps 1 and 28 or others also. It also seemed that you were not aware of the fact that the CV2 and CV5 values defined the end points of the "curve", and that CV6 had no effect on the curve.
In addition, I have a strong suspicion that the "curve" installed by Litchfield was really nothing other than the curve that was the LokSound decoder default, unless you specifically asked them to do something other than just download the decoder files. And I also believe, although I haven't looked, that the default "curve" is a straight line defined by whatever values were programmed into CVs 2 and 5.
When you make the changes to CV29 (if that is the one) that allows you to use speed curves, that usually means "user defined speed curves". So if the only defined speed curve is a straight line, that's what you're going to get. Now in the case of a Soundtraxx decoder (yes I know that's not what you have) there are a group of speed curves that you can pick from, including one that is a straight line. There is also a curve that can be totally owner generated. Thus you can pick any of the pre-loaded curves or the one that is owner generated by changing another CV value.
So anyway, that was why I asked my question. Again, no insult was intended. However, if you really do feel insulted, let me know and I'll add you to my list of those to whom I should not offer any assistance.
Have a nice day!
Dick (oh, and that happens to be my name, not an insult)
maxman Whoa, big guy, no insult was intended.
Whoa, big guy, no insult was intended.
OK, then.
As has been hinted at by myself (and observed by others) I'm a beginner. The only other decoder I've messed with "extensively" has been a Soundtraxx. First, keep in mind that I had a "keep alive" installed, so I couldn't read the CV's (learned THAT one pretty quickly) (and, yes, I realized I could have temporarily disconnected the "keep alive"--with no small amount of work). Anyway, it was then obvious that I had to actually do some planning and record keeping.
As delivered, the Soundtraxx installation had far from ideal running traits (remember: gas electric). I had heard of the speed curve adjustment. And I figured (perhaps wrongly) that the pre-installed speed curve was dead linear. So I came up with numbers based on that and what I wanted, and input new CV's for 67-94. And 29, etc. Worked BEAUTIFULLY right outa the box. For 67-94, I made a number column as if there was a linear array of increases (since that appeared to match how it was running). Then I made a number column that reflected how I thought the speed curve should be. And input my new numbers.
Hey, I'm a programming wizard!!
So my next one was an ESU equipped ATSF GP9. I approached the programming exactly the same way as the gas electric. Assuming, incorrectly, that DCC decoders had a standardized program. Seemed reasonable at the time.
And here I am. But enough about me.....
Your comments have been and are helpful and useful. But the way ESU set up the various speed "choices" is not straightforward. To me. And I certainly don't think they did a great job of explaining things in their official manual.
What it appears is so is that IF you wish to utilize a custom speed curve (your own or pre-installed), that speed is ALSO affected by CV's 2 and 5. Hence, one uses CV2, 5, and 68 (!) through 93 (!) with 67 always automatically fixed at 1 and 94 always automatically fixed at 255. Thus, although CV 94 stays constant, the top speed of the model may vary, caused by changes in 5. And intermittent
In addition, doing the CV54 automatic thingy kind of rearranges the output of those numbers. Too. Swell.
Please be reminded that when I programmed the Soundtraxx decoder and changed CV 94 to 156, it just did it. And the model matched that nicely. Without an opinion.
Whatever ESU did, I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm saying they are not terribly clear on how to use what they did. Which is a problem.
Loksound has five pre-set speed curves as well .... Exponential1 / Exponential2 / Linear / Logarithmic1 / Logarithmic2 in addition to just creating your own.
7j43k In addition, doing the CV54 automatic thingy kind of rearranges the output of those numbers. Too. Swell.
No, the Auto Tune does not reset ANY of the user-defined speed table settings. It adjusts the four CVs used in setting the BEMF performance. BEMF is most beneficial in the lower range speeds, so it is adjusting the parameters so the engine will perform optimally at lower speeds - hence you noted how much slower the engine would crawl. Since these parameters affect the entire speed range, it only makes sense that the upper levels would be affected as well. Again, that can easily be compensated for by increasing CV5 without affecting the speed curve you already created.
Starting to see the beauty of how Loksound does it yet ?
Strictly speaking, I didn't say "reset". I said "rearranges the output". The "output" being what gets sent to the motor.
So, I just wandered into the train room and checked: CV5 is currently at 255. So I don't see CV5 being increased.
Actually, I cranker er up to full throttle, and the top speed looks just fine-ish.
I guess what I'm seeing is that a light engine is sounding like it's working way too hard for the speed and acceleration I'm seeing.
Are there CV's for that?????
I did, by the way, change CV3 and 4 from 80 to 40, to see what would happen. Not much change, to me.
I am impressed with ESU decoders. Not so much some of their instructions. Which is an incredibly common problem with electronics. Instructions should be designed for people who DON'T get how something works just by touching it.
I personally don't like using the Auto Tune feature (unless I HAVE to, to get an engine running right) for just the reasons you are experiencing. All my engines run just fine without having to resort to that.
I'm sure there are ways to tweak it manually with the four BEMF CVs, but I don't understand them fully enough to actually KNOW what I'm adjusting.
There are no CVs for adjusting the sound transition points on the Select decoders. In the V4.0 decoders, you can go into the sound schedule and adjust the points.
I will say that I am not at all unhappy with how this little guy runs. Now. And I appreciate both the advices and the learning opportunities provided by all.
What is really quite neat, as I run between the computer and the layout, is that the CV's can be changed almost in an instant. Over and over and over. That is NOT true for a locomotive paint job. Or, for that matter, a DCC/sound install.
By "working too hard" do you mean it sounds like it's revving up the prime mover way too much for alight engine move? Try reducing CV3 AND also turning up the throttle slower. Or just the latter. If you crank it open and rely on the momentum to accelerate slowly, the prime mover will run wide open like it's startting a heavy train. If you don't want it to go right into a high notch, you need to bump the throottle up slowly, like you are trying to accelerate slowly without the help of momentum. Part of what triggers the higher notch on the prime mover is the difference between commanded speed and actual speed. Dunno if that is still the case with the Full Throttle feature, I have no place to run anything and I haven't loaded the updated sounds into any of my locos.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy,
Thanks for the thought. For now, I think I'll let this go. It IS pretty darn nice the way it is, right now. I've got a Free-mo event to get ready for. I'll bring it with me, and see what "the folks" say. Also, since it's an informal event, I thought I'd bring my programming stuff and maybe play with it when I ain't running trains. Gotta let the other guys play too, ya know.
You can likely file this under "Totally Useless Information", but there was one incident where I was glad I had a few feet of track set up when I did the CV54 thing. Like others have mentioned, the procedure usually takes only about 12" of track, but on one occassion it was all I could do to catch my scratchbuilt railtruck before it launched itself off of the end of the three feet of track at something approaching the sound barrier. I wondered what the heck was wrong, but I couldn't figure it out. When I posted about the incident someone suggested that I probably had a 6V motor in the thing. That made sense. The motor came with a very primitive and apparently ancient kit which I used as fodder for building. I had assumed that it was 12V because it came in an HO scale kit. There was no name on the package.
Changing the motor would have required that the truck body be partially destroyed, so I decided to play with CVs 2, 5, and 6. I was pleasantly suprised that I was able to get the railtruck to run very nicely by setting the three CV values very low. I can't remember the exact values but I think they are all in the single digits.
Since I doubt that many of you are planning on using 6V motors, the above information is, as I said, quite useless. Funny, but useless.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Useless? Well, maybe.
I've got some motors tucked away that are 24V. As opposed to 6V. They're the famous, or not, 1" cube motors. Perhaps Dave's experience might be of use on the great day when/if I "make them go".
In a video where Matt Hermann demonstrates the CV54 auto configuration, he makes several mentions of how you need to be careful that the track is clear, and that some locos will go further than others while configuring - the one he demonstrates with goes only about 1/4 of the way around a simple loop of one of the plastic based sectional tracks.
One would PROBABLY expect a 24 volt motor to take off at half the speed of a 12V motor. But the total distance traveled could possibly be a lot longer since part of the BEMF adjustment requires the decoder to collect a sufficient number of samples.
I'm less than a year into the hobby so still learning a lot. My locomotives are mostly LokSound 5 and a few with LokSound Select (no Tsunami anymore). My Walthers Proto and Atlas Gold units run perfectly right out of the box (only change was momentums). However I have a couple of Athearn Genesis locomotives even after extensive break-in that were giving me problems especially as they came to a stop. The would slowly come to a stop and then jerk forward slightly a couple of times until they finally did stop. I put CV54 (BEMF effect) from 50 to 255 and CV55 (inertia) from 100 to 10 and it solved the issue. It runs great now! I will continue to test and see if I can back this 255 number down or increase the 10 value (not sure if I need to although these numbers are far from the settings in the Walthers and Atlas units). CV51 and CV52 are left at the original settings of 0. Additionally I changed CV5 (top speed) to 100 and CV6 (midspeed) to 30 to enhance low speed control performance. CV 2 was at 1 from the factory and left that way. I also changed the momentums CV3 and CV4 which were both at 20 and now set to 80. The range of stock values for CV54 for my locomotives range from 24 to 53. CV55 stock settings range from 27 to 100. These wide ranges tell me there are many combinations that can achieve prototypical movements.