Hi All,
I'll just get to the point, this problem is just crazy!!! I have a short ""somewhere" in my wiring , I had to cross my bus wires (black to red, red to black)my bus wires are Red for the A Track, Black for the B track, my feeders are the same, I have checked every single feeder, they all match up, as soon as I match up the bus wires the short starts. (???????) Help!
undo the last thing(s) you did just before the problem occurred.
when desperate, divide and conquer. break bus and track in half and repeat on the half with the short
best of luck
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Looks like you'll have to start disconnecting feeders until the short goes away. If you have a DMM with a continuity function you can just use the audible signal to tell when you find the culprit.
Check turnouts, as you might have a frog that is bridging A to B and needs to be isolated first. Or you have a reverse loop that is bringing A to the B rail. Just do a visual inspection before you start cutting wires. That way you might find a place to start disconnecting wires.
Well, I do have a crossover just beyond where my short happened in my bus wire. Hmmmmm
I suspect your crossover has created a reverse loop.
To find out, draw your track plan with both rails showing, one in red and one in black. If the red and black lines connect to each other at any point you have created a reverse loop which is causing your short.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Can you post a trak plan please?
Gary
TrainsRMe1 I have checked every single feeder, they all match up, as soon as I match up the bus wires the short starts.
I have checked every single feeder, they all match up, as soon as I match up the bus wires the short starts.
If you are certain that every single feeder is wired correctly, then something else is shorting the system. Had you ever had the layout running without a short?
Rich
Alton Junction
I'm at work now, but I could do so tonight.
I had to mismatch my bus wire, which I should not have to Do,
TrainsRMe1 I had to mismatch my bus wire, which I should not have to Do,
.....................unless....................
...........you connected a red or black feeder to the wrong rail.
That's probably what you did, or someone else suggested, you created a reversing section.
Well Rich, sometimes us DCC newbies can FIND ways to short things out.
I had all my red feeders connected to red bus and black to black and had a short when I initially installed the system. Seems I had a red wire connected to what should have been a black rail and a black wire connected to what should have been a red rail I found it using the MR trick of taking an old freight car and painting ome side red and the other black and when I ran it arround suddenly THERE it was! i kept that little car on the tracks as i continued to wire both loops. Also how I confirmed where reverse loops were.
gdelmoro Well Rich, sometimes us DCC newbies can FIND ways to short things out. I had all my red feeders connected to red bus and black to black and had a short when I initially installed the system. Seems I had a red wire connected to what should have been a black rail and a black wire connected to what should have been a red rail
I had all my red feeders connected to red bus and black to black and had a short when I initially installed the system. Seems I had a red wire connected to what should have been a black rail and a black wire connected to what should have been a red rail
gdelmoroCan you post a trak plan please?
Oh my!
I used to think this was a good suggestion until every new pic of the track plan was a different track plan or it would change the orientation 180 degrees and then 90 degrees and upside down and backwards. Be gentle with us.
It still seems like a good idea to label tracks or turnouts so we don't have to refer to the turnout 1/3 of the way down on the left half of the pic.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Well, I wish I could post a trackplan, but I always have a problem in doing so, I did however used the old method of marking one of my old box cars one side red the other side black, I ran it all around my layout to( get this) only find that every single feeder matched the side of the box car!!! So I guess the only thing to do now is ( sigh) start all over, there must be a problem with the bus wire, I checked all of my turnouts, and none of them are causing the short, UUUGGGHHH!!
TrainsRMe1 Well, I wish I could post a trackplan, but I always have a problem in doing so, I did however used the old method of marking one of my old box cars one side red the other side black, I ran it all around my layout to( get this) only find that every single feeder matched the side of the box car!!! So I guess the only thing to do now is ( sigh) start all over, there must be a problem with the bus wire, I checked all of my turnouts, and none of them are causing the short, UUUGGGHHH!!
Well, I wish I could post a trackplan, but I always have a problem in doing so,
I did however used the old method of marking one of my old box cars one side red the other side black, I ran it all around my layout to( get this) only find that every single feeder matched the side of the box car!!!
So I guess the only thing to do now is ( sigh) start all over, there must be a problem with the bus wire, I checked all of my turnouts, and none of them are causing the short,
UUUGGGHHH!!
If I send you a PM with my email address, can you email me with a copy of your track plan so I can post it for you?
Sure, that would be great,
BigDaddy gdelmoro Can you post a trak plan please? Oh my! I used to think this was a good suggestion until every new pic of the track plan was a different track plan or it would change the orientation 180 degrees and then 90 degrees and upside down and backwards. Be gentle with us. It still seems like a good idea to label tracks or turnouts so we don't have to refer to the turnout 1/3 of the way down on the left half of the pic. Excellent point Henry doug
gdelmoro Can you post a trak plan please?
TrainsRMe1I had to cross my bus wires (black to red, red to black
Geographically wouldn't the problem be close to this point? We haven't eliminated the frog issue either. What turnouts are you using?
TrainsRMe1 Sure, that would be great,
BigDaddy Geographically wouldn't the problem be close to this point? We haven't eliminated the frog issue either. What turnouts are you using?
Yes, this could be the issue. Some turnouts (Peco Electrofrog) must be gapped on the downstream rails, even though no reversing section is involved.
Also Henry, I agree with your earlier comment about accurate, consistent track plans. Difficult enough to describe things in a forum even with perfect illustrations. Nearly impossible when the pictures don't match the words.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
ROBERT PETRICK BigDaddy Geographically wouldn't the problem be close to this point? We haven't eliminated the frog issue either. What turnouts are you using? Yes, this could be the issue. Some turnouts (Peco Electrofrog) must be gapped on the downstream rails, even though no reversing section is involved. Also Henry, I agree with your earlier comment about accurate, consistent track plans. Difficult enough to describe things in a forum even with perfect illustrations. Nearly impossible when the pictures don't match the words. Robert
TrainsRMe1 Well, I wish I could post a trackplan, but I always have a problem in doing so,
Is the "Klamath Falls Staging" connected to the "Hidden Stage Tracks", specifically where entered at the lower right hand corner of the track plan?
Mike
Water Level Route Is the "Klamath Falls Staging" connected to the "Hidden Stage Tracks", specifically where entered at the lower right hand corner of the track plan?
The hidden staging could form a reverse loop, I suppose. On the posted track plan, I see no reverse loops or reversing sections.
Still wonder about the types of turnouts being used. Peco Electrofrogs?
New layout or modification to up and running layout? Did it all work good before? Did it ever work well? Type of DCC system?
If there are no return loops, then a short at a crossover has to be either an Electrofrog type turnout without proper gaps, or the two tracks being connected are not wired the same - ie if it is like this ||X|| then the bus should be ABXAB. If it's ABXBA then there will be a short even with Atlas turnouts.
EDIT: BTW, if it shorts on DCC, it would short on DC. It's not really a DCC problem, it's a track wiring problem.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I saved the track plan and then blew it up. The resolution does not improve. lt says:
>Turnouts Atlas (manual)
The layout runs OK it could run better. My DCC system is Digitrax Zepher The Red Line is A rail the Black is B rail
There is a Peco turnout below the engine shop top right.
My eyes aren't good enough to follow the individual A & B rails to see where his bus "changes" In some areas I can't say for sure how many tracks there are.
There is either a crossing or a cross over in the peninsula that hangs down at the right third of the diagram. It is just at the end of the straight section. I see other lines that could be cross overs above Coos Bay.
There are 3 paths to staging yards. Are they yards or are they loops? Dunno.
OP Aside from the shorting issue, what do you mean you wish it would run better?
I just want it to run flawlessly, there is a crossover in Cushman, far right on the 2nd peninsula, as well as at the Umpqua River, along the wall on the far left, continuing from there coming through the town of Mapleton, to the 1st peninsula I have a Peco turnout handling my dbl main line to single track, that turnout is operated by a Tortoise, from there the single track runs through 3 tunnels, across McKenzie river, from there, I'm running a track to a lower level staging that is a reversal loop, I 'm using a Digitrax AR1 for the loop, meanwhile the mainline on the upper level runs to Eugene yard, engine shop to the left of the mainline, the South end of the yard, the mainline runs off into a hidden track that continues behind the scenery to the other side of the layout to Coos Bay Oregon. Now I have noticed there are two types of gauge wire for my bus, hmmm I wonder if that could be the problem.????
Thanks Guys for the help, and thank you Rich for posting this for me.
You say the layout runs fine when the bus wires are reversed. Could it be that the reverse section is not isolated and when you reverse the buss you are in phase with the reverse section, when you return to black on black and red on red a short occurs, as you may not be in phase with the reverse section. This is just a guess on my part but it is odd that a short does not exist regardless of which way you have the buss wires.
Dunno, it seems that there is too much going on here to analyze this issue properly.
Is there a problem with the bus wires? Is there a problem with the feeders. Is there a reversing section somewhere on the layout? Is there a necessary gap missing? Could it be a turnout? I just think there is too much going on .....in this thread.