.
I'll start with the solid or stranded question. My system is DCC but I don't think that matters much. I went with stranded bus for two reasons. Firstly, some folks suggested it was simply easier to handle and route under the layout. Secondly, I was using IDC connectors for the feeder taps and I thought the IDC blade might squash better into the strands for its bus connection versus against a solid wire. I do doubt that any slight amp capability difference between solid and stranded bus of same AWG should drive the decision. All that said, I used solid feeders because I figured making a 90 degree hook on the end of my 22AWG solid feeders to solder to the rail web would be nice and easy.
I'll leave it to the DC folks to recommend bus AWG size. In DCC, the DCC guide suggest less than 1/2 drop drop. Perhaps there's much more tolerance for DC. And of course bus length comes into play. As an example in DCC, the DCC guide would recommend 14AWG is ok for 5A up to 40 ft. Maybe close enough to say that 14AWG might do fine for DC at 6A up tto 40', certainly 35? I'll bet someone can weigh in with a DC guideline.
If you want to read older threads, I find a google search more useful (than the forum Search the Community option):
https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&q=site%3A+cs.trains+bus+wire+size+for+dc+layout&oq=site%3A+cs.trains+bus+wire+size+for+dc+layout&gs_l=serp.12...10037.10037.0.12768.1.1.0.0.0.0.119.119.0j1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.0.0.gHUnRu8RxoY
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
How long will the bus run be? This is more of a determinign factor for size of wire because anything from #18 on up can easily handle the currents of model railroads - it's the resistence per foot and thus the voltage drop that is a bigger factor in deciding on size of wire to use.
As for solid vs stranded, it will always use stranded for the heavy bus wiring, it's just infinitely easier to handle when pulling it around under the layout. Since it's not commonly terminated by wrapping the wire around a screw (like in household wiring), there's little danger of a stray strand causing a short. Plus the more the wire gets flexed, the greater chance of solid wire snapping. For feeders, I always use solid wire, because it is not generally moved, and a solid conductor is easier to lay alongside the rail and solder.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
What Randy said
I find that solid strand is what I prefer. One can bend it to fit a place, and it stays in place. I can see the point of stranded being more useful with "suitcase" connectors though. Also, pulling solid wire is easier for me than straded that coils up in a tangle too often. I guess, try some of each and determine your own preference.
I used the solid for the bus, and solid for feeders. The feeders are wrapped around the bus, soldered, and coverd with the shrink tubing, by splitting the peices of tubing, length wise, so I could get it around the connection.
Mike.
My You Tube
I use ROMEX 14 gauge wall interior wire with the white flexible outer insulation and a ground inside with a black and white insulated pair of solid copper. Yes, it's no great shakes straightening it and feeding it through 1/2" holes in the joists and such, but it doesn't budge, even when I don't use retainers to tack it up here and there. For the short runs I have, bi-directionally from my centrally placed DCC station, it works well. If I had some braided stuff handy, I'd happily use it too, though.
12 ga (or 14 ga) will do nicely for ALMOST any bus wiring. If you need larger, you probably already know that, so you wouldn't be asking.
It is likely overkill. So? Throw a dart and take your pick.
I prefer stranded. That might be because I use it professionally. I don't think it really matters whether you choose stranded or solid. But, after installing some, you might develop an opinion. And act accordingly.
The feeders should certainly be solid. They should be as small as you can stand, and as short as you can stand. That said, again, it probably won't make any difference.
The REALLY good news is that you cannot go far wrong with ANY of the recommendations here.
Ed
Cisco Kid...What would you recommend for gauge? And does solid or stranded turn your crank?...
If I were recommending anything, it'd be solid, but why are you bothering with a bus wire for DC? Unless your layout is especially large, there's not really any need for one, and the power supply seems fairly robust, too.I have over 300' of mainline (not counting double tracked areas), and have never seen a need for one. I run mostly doubleheaded steam, sometimes with pushers, too. A PWM throttle running off the AC terminals of a Controlmaster 20 has no difficulties keeping things going, even with a dozen locomotives running at the same time.Spend the bus wire money on something nice that you can use on the layout, where you can fully enjoy it.
Wayne
The OP says he and his buddy are "resurrecting" a layout. He does NOT say why it needs rewiring. Perhaps it does not. Perhaps it just needs plugging in.
OP:
What prompts you to ask a question? Why are you asking about wiring? What is the problem? Why can't you just hook up a power pack and make it go?
I agree, Ed. While DC wiring can become complicated if you want independent multi-train operation or signalling, one of its strengths is that it doesn't necessarily have to be complicated at all. Unless the mainline is especially long, there's no need for a bus wire at all, as the rail is a perfectly good electrical conductor if you take the time to solder the rail joiners in place, then cut electrical gaps where required.
Same goes for DCC though. This whole notion that you need 'more' wiring with DCC is total bunk.
If the train runs fine with DC and no slowing down, it will run fine on DCC by simply swapping out the DC controller for a DCC booster. If the loco slows down at the furthest reaches of the layout on DC, it's going to have problem with DCC.
Where the difference comes in, is that with DC you might ever only run 1 loco at a time. Now with DCC you can run 4, on the same track. Well, that's 4x the current draw, and what may have been fine for DC (or DCC) and ONE loco isn't robust enough for FOUR locos.
Some of these DCC wiring sites have people convinced you need #12 wire to get adequate signal to a simple 4x8 layout. It just isn't so. The same good wiring practices that apply to DC apply to DCC - the common things like slipped on rail joiners make poor electrical connections between sections of track.
Ah fellows, wait 'til you see this when it is wired and running. It is a layout constructed in the early 1960s and entirely hand laid track....hand tooled and filed/soldered frogs and spiked down double slip switches. Original wiring is cloth covered house hold wiring and lighter materials....all modular, saved by the son of the father who was a locomotive engineer on the steam engines of the PGE here in British Columbia. This is going to be a bit hit on Facebook. Yesterday a gang of us connected all the modular sections together for the first time in about 40 years.
All the locos to be run on it are brass from the 1950's...still immaculate.
I guess I could have left the term bus wire out of the post. We are looking at redoing layout wire to all the blocks and so forth. It is one common ground and another wire to the opposite rail in about 20 blocks.
Thanks for all the input. I will pass it on.
I'm sure you know this already, but if you ever want to change to DCC, or have the option to run either DC or DCC (not both at the same time), you might want to consider "blocking" both rails, and not do the ungapped common rail.
Just a thought.
Thanks, Mike. My friend has lots to think about....and the DCC would be for any new locos. The great old brass runs best on DC.
I admire your layout. Cool
My layout videos youtube channel (I think you will like them judging from your work.)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCasvyHClC5MbTpnQYUZT80g
Wow CiscoKid, that uncoupling video is great! I always thought I didn't want to mess with uncoupling magnets, but this has me rethinking the possibility.
And thank you for the compliment. From what I can see of your layout on the videos, it look great!
EDIT: Had time to watch your cab ride video, and trip around the turntable. Excellent work Dave! I noticed that your turntable doesn't have any issues with aligning to the track. Great work. I was going to put one in, but opted for using the space as a transloading/team track area, which still needs lots of detail work.
mbinsewi Wow CiscoKid, that uncoupling video is great! I always thought I didn't want to mess with uncoupling magnets, but this has me rethinking the possibility.
Thanks. I noticed that video was popular. I had found a fellow with a web post about it and since I made the original long video I am told K&J Magnetics have sold a lot of the little barrel magnets. I see the hobby shops have also picked up on the idea and are selling the magnets. I do believe K&J still offer the best prices....not a ad for them by me...just that is their business and they seem good at it.
One caveat: the system works well for all cars with couplers and trip pins with the normal range of pin height from the roadbed. I do have some passenger cars with knuckle couplers retrofitted to the long arms of the original horn and hook set up. Well, the strong little magnets grab these like levers and tug them right down to the road bed and slam the train to a halt. (I am imagining a passenger grabbing the emergency cord!) These I run very gingerly over the uncoupler sectons while covering the stop button. Any other couplers very sloppy in their boxes can do the same.
And in general, I wouldn't place an uncoupler secton on the mainline in case a train at full throttle had a car with a bad sloppy coupler.
However, I am really happy with this method. I can be ten-twenty feet away, and if my judgement is good as I come to a halt beside my marker bushes, I can assemble a whole 30 car train with a yard engine working over the uncoupler zones on the 6 yard tracks. It seems really cool to observe.
Cisco Kid:
You have a really nice layout, and the uncoupling magnet video was great!
Thanks for sharing.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
On the original question - specifications for a layout that runs ancient DC locos.
Bus connections - 12ga solid for common rail and universal point motor return busses. All bus wires run between stud-washer-nut terminals in secure wire runs. They get bent, once, during installation, and haven't been moved since.
Rail power connections - assorted gages down to 22 (salvaged communications cable) solid. End at either stud-and-nut termini or solder lugs. In a few places, 24ga pair was used intead of 22ga (I have reels of this stuff.)
Switch point motors - 22ga solid salvage wire, same as rail power. My twin coil machines work well even though the wire is small. Would be more than adequate for Tortoise or other low-power point movers.
All other wiring (signals, panel-panel connections, structure lighting) is done out of the same pile of salvaged cable. When (if) I run out I expect to continue with the same wire sizes, but purchased new.
My panels pivot, but the solid wires take this as a torsion stress. No bending solid wire.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - DC, MZL system)