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Need beginner info for an upgrade

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Need beginner info for an upgrade
Posted by joes2fst4u on Monday, February 20, 2017 12:07 PM

Hello everyone!  I have an old straight DC CNW C44-9W that I would love to upgrade with DCC/Sound/better lighting.  My question is what do I need for a decoder/sound/lighting/etc?  Thank you all!

Tags: DCC , Install , sound
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Posted by richg1998 on Monday, February 20, 2017 1:25 PM

What brand, scale? There may be differences. Lots of differences.

Check TCS and SoundTraxx for recommendations.

http://www.tcsdcc.com/

http://www.soundtraxx.com/choose/step1.php

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, February 20, 2017 1:44 PM

 Don't forget Loksound, they have correct, recent sound files for this loco, plus the Full Throttle feature.

                     --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Monday, February 20, 2017 1:50 PM

How well does the engine run on DC?  When you take the shell off, how much empty space is there inside?

Sometimes, when there is too much that needs replacement and upgrading, you are actually better off getting a new engine.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by richg1998 on Monday, February 20, 2017 2:06 PM

I forgot about LokSound. I will have to look up their site and see if they have a decoder recommendation page. They have excellant deocders also.

Older locos, measure the DC current required at 12 vdc with motor shaft locked.

Most will recommend an LED with 1k, 1/4 watt resistor instead of light bulbs. No heat to worry about and long life. Some decoders have an onboard LED resistor but you will have to check the decoder documention.

All decoders show specs on line.

A photo of your loco with the shell removed could help.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by joes2fst4u on Monday, February 20, 2017 2:14 PM

Thank you gentlemen!  Sorry meant to mention it's HO, lots of room inside, I know it's not DCC quick plug ready or anything.  I will try to get a pic here soon of it.  I don't remember the brand off the top of my head, most likely Athearn or Walthers.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Monday, February 20, 2017 2:38 PM

You'll also be surprised how many videos, tutorials, etc., show up when you Google installing a decoder in a C44-9W, or with any loco. Be sure to click on images too.

Mike.

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, February 20, 2017 2:45 PM

 If it's 'old' it's probably the Athearn Blue Box one which will require some work, there's no board to repalce so it's a hard wire install all teh way, plus you need to isolate the motor. Kato has been making them for a while as well, theirs have an 8 pin plug or you can do a simple board swap.

 ESU doesn't have install pictures like TCS does, but they only have 3 decoders: Select with wires, Select Direct board replacement for Atlas/Athearn/Kato/etc. and Select Micro for smaller locos. Same instructions for TCS apply to any decoder you would install.

                   --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by richg1998 on Monday, February 20, 2017 2:55 PM

I was just at the TCS site. They have changed their site You have to type in the loco type. If no response, they don't have an install.

I typed in C44-9W and came up zero. I had to use the brand of loco to find different installs such as just Athearn. Athearn C44-9W did not work.

Did not see any WOW sound decoders for your loco.

A Google search for C44-9W seems to show Kato, at least with a Tsunami install.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by joes2fst4u on Monday, February 20, 2017 3:08 PM

rrinker

 If it's 'old' it's probably the Athearn Blue Box one which will require some work, there's no board to repalce so it's a hard wire install all teh way, plus you need to isolate the motor. Kato has been making them for a while as well, theirs have an 8 pin plug or you can do a simple board swap.

 ESU doesn't have install pictures like TCS does, but they only have 3 decoders: Select with wires, Select Direct board replacement for Atlas/Athearn/Kato/etc. and Select Micro for smaller locos. Same instructions for TCS apply to any decoder you would install.

                   --Randy

 

 

 

You are correct on the Athearn Blue Box.  And yep, no board, just wires.  I've been reading about isolating the motor, doesn't sound too terrbily bad.  I just have a basic soldering iron though so electronics soldering makes me a tiny bit nervous.

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Posted by richg1998 on Monday, February 20, 2017 3:16 PM

I recall a short discussion here a few years ago. Someone put a LokSound in but replaced the speaker the decoder came with. LokSound has changed some over the years.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, February 20, 2017 5:26 PM

 Loksound no longer comes with a speaker, you get the decoder and then buy whatever speaker best fits. They aren't oddball 32 ohm speakers any more, either.

 There are no C44-9W WOWSound install pictures, but there are some motor only install pictures, one of an Athearn and one of a kato.

 Probably the hardest part of doing a BB loco is drilling and tapping a hole in the frame for a brass screw to solder the track pickup wire to. Motor isolation is easy, if you're careful you can swap the top and bottom clips so the bottom one is plain and the top one has the tabs, but remember that's ALL that holds the entire motor together. Or you can use some wire cutters and just clip the tabs off the bottom clip, then put a layer or two of Kapton tape in the well. Solder a wire to the bottom clip before reinstalling the motor. After you do a couple of decoders you end up with leftover wire in all the proper colors but you can also buy it from various suppliers, it's good to stick with the standard colors when extending wires.

                         --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Monday, February 20, 2017 5:33 PM

OK, now how old is the loco?

I have several Athearns from the 50s and 60s.  They kind of ran on DC the last time I tried, but it wasn't what I would call good performance.  I chose to "neuter" them by removing the motors and now they run as dummy engines.

Some of these old engines had a well-deserved reputation as "rock grinders" for the noise they made.  Today's engines are very quiet, but consider how much you're willing to put into a sound decoder for a loco that will drown it out with its own internal noise.

On the other hand, if this is a "newer" old engine, you might be fine.  Another think you may still need to consider is the couplers.  It's best to use Kadees, but you have to watch out for metal couplers if you've got a "hot frame" engine.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by joes2fst4u on Monday, February 20, 2017 5:48 PM

Thank you that is very helpful to know!

As for age, this was new probably around the 1995-1998 time frame.  It is defnitely not loud, nice and quiet double flywheel, it runs beautifully smooth and quiet.  I'll try to post a pic or two tonight or tomorrow.

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, February 20, 2017 5:50 PM

MisterBeasley

OK, now how old is the loco?

I have several Athearns from the 50s and 60s.  They kind of ran on DC the last time I tried, but it wasn't what I would call good performance.  I chose to "neuter" them by removing the motors and now they run as dummy engines.

Some of these old engines had a well-deserved reputation as "rock grinders" for the noise they made.  Today's engines are very quiet, but consider how much you're willing to put into a sound decoder for a loco that will drown it out with its own internal noise.

On the other hand, if this is a "newer" old engine, you might be fine.  Another think you may still need to consider is the couplers.  It's best to use Kadees, but you have to watch out for metal couplers if you've got a "hot frame" engine.

 

 It won't be that old, GE didn't even make the real C44-9W until 1993. Big Smile

                            --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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Posted by richg1998 on Monday, February 20, 2017 6:22 PM

Loco diagram. Dated 1995 according to HO Seeker.

http://hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionAthearn/athearngec449wpg2.jpg

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by joes2fst4u on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 2:53 PM

How do I post pictures?

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Posted by mbinsewi on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 3:37 PM

Here's a link to posting pictures.  It's the first page of "General Discussion"

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/249194.aspx

The link that Rich posted would be what the OP has.  The next newer models had the "dog bone" drive shafts, which ran a lot quieter.

Digitrax doesn't have their "clip-on" Athearn BB decoder harness any more.  It's a hard wire.

Mike.

Edit:  OK, the link thing doesn't work me, tried it twice.

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Posted by richg1998 on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 4:46 PM

The HO SEEKER link is broken again, People in a couple other forums have had the same issue. Does not work for me right now.

Go to the ho seeker main page and click on Literature and then the company name.

www.hoseeker.net

I just tried to make the link active but it will not work. You will have to copy and paste.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 5:12 PM

I couldn't get the link to posting pictures to work either.  It was "live" while I was typing the message, and when I submitted, it went dead.  Tried it twice.  And yes, I notice the HOseeker link didn't work either.

Mike

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Posted by richg1998 on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 5:21 PM

I was in contact with the site owner a few years ago since I had sent in scans but he no longer responds to email now.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 5:23 PM

I've never seen an HO Seeker link work in the forum.  I don't really understand the programming that would prevent it, but here it is: 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by richg1998 on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 5:29 PM

I thought of doing that but did not have the time.

Ho seeker links stopped working at times some months ago. Maybe a year ago.

Time's fun when you are having flies.

They use to work here regularly.

Some in the MRH forums discussed this some. Did not work every time there either.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, February 23, 2017 10:09 PM

Here's a clickable link to the picture posting thread:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/249194.aspx

Here is the HOseeker site:

http://www.hoseeker.net/

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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