If there is only one locomotive on the layout can i use my NCE Power Pro with Radio to program the locomotive?
Gary
Yes, you can safely use your mains to program. If you mistakenly leave other decoders on the rails when power is applied and you effect the CV change(s), the others will accept the same rewrite instruction(s) if you do this in Paged or broadcast mode. In Ops, or "programming on the main', only the decoder addressed on the throttle will accept the rewrite instruction(s).
Note that some systems and decoders need a programming track and special handling. If so, you would be advised to do this on a small length of track. I usually isolate the diner car set-out track or another small length to do programming such as changes of address and such, particularly with Paged Mode.
selectorI usually isolate the diner car set-out track or another small length to do programming such as changes of address and such, particularly with Paged Mode.
That just gave me a great idea to set up a temporary "main" so I can finally program the address of the ONE and ONLY MTH locomotive that I own which requires paged mode to change the address.
I'm using seven of the available eight power districts coming off a PSX Power Shield breaker. I have cut-out switches on these and I can shut off all the breakers actually feeding the layout and use the open one to power a short length of track and call it the "main" while I program the MTH engine. I have over a hundred engines on the layout and I really don't want to risk scrambling their decoders. Removing them all would be a bit of a project.
This thread was the "boost" I needed to finally get that address change done!
Regards, Ed
gdelmoro If there is only one locomotive on the layout can i use my NCE Power Pro with Radio to program the locomotive
If there is only one locomotive on the layout can i use my NCE Power Pro with Radio to program the locomotive
Yes, you can program on the main (POM) but there are two downsides to that.
First, you will be programing your locomotive at "full track voltage". This is fine for a decoder that's already been programmed previously. However, if you just installed a new decoder and haven't programmed/tested it yet, you could fry it if it's installed/wired incorrectly. Programming track mode allows you to program your new decoder at a lower voltage; thereby reducing the risk of your decoder going *poof*.
Secondly, you lose the ability to readback your decoder's CVs values. This is very handy for knowing what the default value for a particular CV is before you change it. Otherwise, if you enter a wrong CV value and your locomotive stops working, you're only option is to do a complete reset in order to return your decoder back to factory settings. If you know what the default of a CV was before you changed it, you can easily correct a goof-up rather than having to reset/reprogram your locomotive's decoder all over again.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Ok so I have (or will haveat christmas ) a NEC Power Pro with Radio starter kit. I don't understand why there is a difference related to voltage or the ability to read back CV's. If I make a separate program track don't I use the same DCC Controller powered by the Power Pro controller anyway ?
Yes, but there are TWO sets of connection on the PowerPro - one for track, and one for programming track. The DCC track for running trains can be used for programming using Ops Mode, which writes to a specific address and has no readback capability. The SEPARATE program track use a a lower power signal and supports reading and writing CVs in several programming modes.
It is common practice to first put a new install on the program track and see if you cna program it as a first test to make sure the wiring is all correct and nothing is shorted - the lower power gives the decoder a chance to not go up in smoke if there ends up being a short in the wiring. On the main track - forget it, if there's a short, the magic smoke will come out before you can grab the loco or kill the power.
Hit up the NCE web site, you can read the manual now without waiting and it will explain this stuff.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
gdelmoro If there is only one locomotive on the layout can i use my NCE Power Pro with Radio to program the locomotive?
I agree with Tom that if you are programming a new decoder for the first time, it is always advisable to use the Programming Track.
Rich
Alton Junction
Ok so I'll have this new NEC starter set. What else will i need to set up a program track (other thuan the track)?
What if you "call" the layout a programing track and remove all other locos for purpose of programing? Does "extra" track found on a layout and not a dedicated programing track make this unfeasible?
Everyone should fully realize that programing on the entire layout knowing you should remove all other locos, does not mean you will remember to remove those locos.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Oops, I mistakenly thought you were asking about the Power Cab, but now I realize that your questions related to the Power Pro. I wish that NCE had called the Power Cab some other name. My bad.
P.S. I also have the Power Pro 5 amp Radio system. Why on earth does NCE call it a "starter system"?
gdelmoro Ok so I'll have this new NEC starter set. What else will i need to set up a program track (other thuan the track)?
Just a pair of feeder wires to that programming track.
Some guys who do a lot of work on locomotives, including commercial installations of decoders, have a length of track, no roadbed, on their work-bench. That track has a pair of 20-22 gauge feeder wires attached to the rails. There may be a resistor wired in series, but it's sometimes not necessary (some decoders need the resistor to 'take' the programming on a programming track. My system doesn't need or do this, but others here can chime in about their systems).
I like the dedicated track that is dual purpose, so it's still part of my layout trackage. As I said earlier, it's my turntable lead or a diner car set-out. Something no longer than about 3'. It is wired to a toggle that can switch between it and the rest of the layout tracks, but I do it in such a way that it is included when I want all the layout powered so that a locomotive can run up it and onto the turntable bridge, or so that a switcher can run onto the diner set-out and retrieve the diner.
But, as Randy has already told you, your NCE model will have two pairs of outputs. One will power your bus to run the entire layout, or just a pair of robust gauge wire feeders to power the entire layout. The other is strictly a low power set of outputs for your programming. All you need is two wires, one to each programming rail. From there, get into your manual and learn it. It's time well spent.
You can but you don't want to develop a bad habit. Like running stop signs when no one looking. You will be caught someday.
No doubt, you will get more locos in the future.
Our club some years ago bought the NCE Power Pro cable version.
At the end of a yard ladder we installed the program track with a DPDT switch also. A separate cable to the program track. Club rules, program ONLY on the program track. Never anywhere else.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
To echo what Selector said earlier, when I converted to DCC I took one of the existing DC electrical track 'blocks' and set it up with a DPDT switch. One way, it was regular DCC, the other way, it connected the block to the programming outputs. I could then put an engine on the programming block track, make changes, run it around the layout to see how it works, then bring it back and make any changes - without having to physically pick it up and move it to a separate programming track. My current layout has a long side track that I use for programming. I do have to remove the freight cars normally there, but it parallels the mainline so I can m.u. two engines and then run them side by side, stopping to make adjustments to one's CVs until they are speedmatched.
I've also got a siding at the front of my layout which doubles as a programming track. There's a DPDT toggle on my control panel that switches it between normal and programming modes.
This way, I don't have to handle the locomotive while making adjustments. I run it in from the layout, flip the switch, make the adjustments, return the switch to "normal" and run it back out to the main line. Since the track is convenient to the front of the layout, it's the first stop after I've done decoder work.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Something else that should be noted - the program track outputs and the main track outputs should NEVER be connected together. The program track outputs are not designed to have voltage appear across them and if the track power is connected in some manner, it will almost certainly damage the command station.
It may be less of an issue with NCE as even the Power Pro system shuts off the track while programming. With Digitrax, you can be running trains and programming on a program track at the same time.
POM and "using the main as a program track" have two different meanings to me (and I suspect many of us). POM is using the main, but directed to a specific address (although address 00 is a broadcast address and WILL program every loco on the rails at the time). POM to a specific loco address though will only affect those decoders with the address you have selected - it won't magically program every loco on the layout (unless you use address 0, or all the locos are set to the same address fro some silly reason).
Using the main as the program track hints to me hooking the program track outputs from the command station to the main in some fashion, usually through a switch to toggle between track power and programming, because directly connecting all 4 wires WILL blow something up. When hooked up this way, in program mode, it WILL program every loco on the rails, because on the "program track" the commands are not the usual DCC track commands and every decoder will respond to the programming signals when using one of the program track options like Paged or Direct.
OK so it seems, at least for a rookie like me, I'm better off with a separate program track. How long does it have to be? I guess I install wire leads from the Program connections with clips so I can bring the track to the layout and connect?
gdelmoro OK so it seems, at least for a rookie like me, I'm better off with a separate program track. How long does it have to be? I guess I install wire leads from the Program connections with clips so I can bring the track to the layout and connect?
My programming track is separate from the main layout. When I have finished programming a locomotive on the programming track, I physically lift the locomotive and place it on the main layout. My programming track is 18 inches long, and that is long enough to accommodate any one of my locomotives.
Thanks to all for all the posts.
richhotrain gdelmoro OK so it seems, at least for a rookie like me, I'm better off with a separate program track. How long does it have to be? I guess I install wire leads from the Program connections with clips so I can bring the track to the layout and connect? I think that there is too much emphasis on trying to program a loco on the programming track in such a way that it can then move onto the main layout without having to physically touch the locomotive. My programming track is separate from the main layout. When I have finished programming a locomotive on the programming track, I physically lift the locomotive and place it on the main layout. My programming track is 18 inches long, and that is long enough to accommodate any one of my locomotives. Rich
I think that there is too much emphasis on trying to program a loco on the programming track in such a way that it can then move onto the main layout without having to physically touch the locomotive.
Indeed. I have not had a drive on-drive off program track on any of the layouts I've built since getting DCC. It does raise the issue of handling locos, but since I am almost 100% diesel, most of them can be easily picked up by the truck sideframes without damage - though I do have a few with seperately applied details on the trucks as well which make lifting them more complicated. But there are ways around that, with various cradles that let you life the loco while it is sitting on a piece of 'track' so you never really touch it, except maybe by the coupler to push or pull it onto the cradle.
BigDaddy What if you "call" the layout a programing track and remove all other locos for purpose of programing? Does "extra" track found on a layout and not a dedicated programing track make this unfeasible? ...
What if you "call" the layout a programing track and remove all other locos for purpose of programing? Does "extra" track found on a layout and not a dedicated programing track make this unfeasible? ...
BigDaddy, I wish someone had answered you! I have an NEC Power Cab which sends its output to their Auto SW, which in turn has one pair of leads to a programming track, and another pair to the main. Supposedly the Auto SW detects the lower voltage of program track mode and sends it to the programming track, and the higher voltage in operating mode and sends that to the main line. However, it appears nothing's coming out of the Auto SW in either mode, since I can't get either of my two locos to power up on the main (they do run in DC mode). Perhaps I have a bad Auto SW. In any case, yes, why not bypass the Auto SW and pretend the main is the programming track? Provided, as you say, only one loco is on the main, wouldn't the lower voltage just go to the main line and allow programming AS IF it were the programming track? I don't know what else to try. --Al in CT
I know nothing about the NCE set-up, but I use Digitrax, and I usually only have i loco at a time on the layout, and I program on the main all the time.
Mike.
My You Tube