Greetings,
So after a 20-year absence from the hobby I am getting back into it. I have a decent selection of HO and N scale locomotives, most of them made between say 1988-1995. I also have my Dad's old brass collection from when he was in the hobby a long time ago. If it was just one or two locomotives, I'd probably buy new ones, but I'm not sure I can get the road names for some of them again (I model Erie Lackwanna and Erie).
I'm still sorting out what type of layout I'll eventually build in my basement. So, to scratch the itch and get back into it I'm looking at joining a local train club. The thought process was I can work on trains and run my stuff there.
So naturally they've built the layout with Digitrax DCC. Most of my locomotives are Atlas and a Life Like Proto 2000 E8.
This is where I get confused. Googling what I need to do is making it hard to determine what I need to buy to convert my locomotives. I've found decoders that look like printed circuit boards, and decoders that just have some flexible plastic around it.
I'm assuming to convert my old locomotives I need the things that look like PCBs, and the other decoders are for locomotives I buy that are DCC ready?
Also, how easy is it to switch a locomotive between DCC and DC? If I don't go DCC at home for some reason, do I need to just pop a chip out and not resolder everything?
Lastly, how much harder is it to convert N scale because of the small size. My manual dexterity is good, but my soldering is weak. I expect after soldering a few HO diesels I'll be much better at it.
Thank you.
The good news, relatively recent Atlas and P2K locos are generally straightforward to convert to DCC.
The confusing news, there are many ways to convert any given loco. The ciruit board decoders are typically made for a specific brand (snd sometimes specific loco) but you can always use the wired decoder in nearly anything. Your best bet it to search the internet for your specific model and there will usually be pictures showing the install. TCS, a decoder maker, has some good install pictures (naturally featuring their decoders, but you can use any similar one in the exact same manner). ALso, it does not matter if the club uses Digitrax, you cna use any brand of decoder.
More good news, most any modern decoder will work on DC or DCC, so you can just put the loco on DC powered track and it will still run, no need to pull the decoder out each time.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I'm no N expert, but from looking across ads, etc, it seems like most N scale decoders released recently and likely available are designed as drop-in replacements for the factory light boards. This tends to limit or eliminate soldering. Soldering is a valuable skill to have, but starting with N scale decoder installs may be jumping the gun. The few dollars more a drop-in decoder usually costs over the generic shrinkwrapped version is well worth it in time saved and aggravtion avoided.
Personally, in a situation like this I'd convert a few and take them for a spin. Given your models seem several decades old, will you be satisfied with the details, paint, and performance vs what is available now? Before investing too much money in the existing fleet, make sure the value you get converting them meets what may be your soon increasing discernment for the exceptional changes in recent years that are now commonly found in new locos.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Thanks.
This reminds me of the XKCD comic "all standards stink. You know what we need? A new standard." There are two clubs I'm thinking of joining: one uses Digititrax, the other NCC.
In terms of buying new locos, I did seriously consider that, and may. The problem is, I model Erie Lackawanna (and predecessor roads) and some of the locomotivesI have, I can't seem to find newer versions of, much less ones with DCC -- for example my P2K Erie E8 set. I also have a set of Rivarossi Erie coaches (these needs the hook couplers replaced, so that's a story for a different day). My dad died a few years ago and I also have his Erie/EL brass collection I'd like to run someday. Lastly, while the details are obviously better, some of the locos I have I did detailing on and like to detail. So, buying a $150-200 locomotive to solve the DCC problem isn't ideal. Before he died, he did start thinking of building a new switching layout so some of his locos (A Train Master and RS3) are DCC ready. Obviously, any new locos I will make sure are DCC ready.
I've sort of segregated the locos into piles: I don't care if I melt solder into the motor; I'd like to convert this; and the brass collection.
This thread was helpful, and what the best option is whenever I'm established at a club have someone tell me "you need this, this and this, and bring your soldering iron and next week I will show you how to convert them."
Ok. I'm going to show my complete ignorance here, and Google has not been friend.
Maybe its mt career in IT where I'm used to dueling standards, but if one club has NCE and another club had Digitrax, as long as I have a DCC decoder in my loco, I'm good to go?
All this time I've been thinking that I needed to swap out chips between systems.
/headdesk.
Brammy,Yep, DCC is an NMRA Standard and is 100% compatible at the railhead. Any DCC-equipped loco will work on any DCC-equipped layout no matter the brand or age. The digital signals in the rail are the same for any DCC system.
What is not compatible are throttles. A Digitrax throttle will not work with an NCE layout or vice versa. Neither will an NCE throttle work on Lenz, and so on. The reason for that is that the control systems use different system architecture. Digitrax' "Loconet" is a peer-to-peer network like LAN. NCE is a "master-slave" polled bus.
WRT your HO collection, if they don't have a DCC plug (usually 8 or 9 pins), it means a hardwire job. You generally pull out the existing board in the loco and replace it with a DCC decoder. There are several types out there that replace old boards completely, for example the Digitrax DH165A0:
http://www.digitrax.com/products/mobile-decoders/dh165a0/
Or there are slightly cheaper ones in shrinkwrap:http://www.digitrax.com/products/mobile-decoders/dh126d/
Either one can work just fine, it just depends on the loco and your skills.
For your N-scale locos, I know Digitrax makes a bunch of them custom made for certain types. Since I'm not in N scale, I can't help, but look through Digitrax' decoder selector and see if that helps:http://www.digitrax.com/products/engine-matrix/decoder/With your HO brass, I've converted a lot of them to DCC for myself and my fellow club members. It really isn't that hard to do as long as the motor brushes are insulated from the frame. You can get away with putting an N-scale or even a Z-scale decoder in anything can-motor equipped, and if you don't care about a back up light, you don't even need any plugs running to the tender. Just use the drawbar as intended for tender electrical pick up and put the decoder in the boiler. To me, it's actually easier to put DCC in a brass steamer than it is with an Athearn Blue Box diesel.
Paul A. Cutler III
Thanks Paul,
This is something I'm going to have to sub out, or get some serious help with. I'm color blind, which is really going to make the wiring a challenge. :)
Google is no different than going to a library. A few of you might know what a library is.
High School, 'sophomore year , 1956, that was called, doing research.
You use the card files and get a book. Take notes on a pad with pencil or pen.
Today, Google with a Word document open is used for notes. Even Note pad can work.
I use Open Office or Libre Office, free downloads that do not bug you. Pretty much like MS Office.
Store links in Favorites. Make up different folders first, such as DCC, Controllers, steam locos, diesel locos, etc.
Much more satisfying than being led by the hand.
Oh, patience is needed.
Downside, Favorites, Bookmarks list can get very long.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Long story short: Get someone at your club to show you how to do it.
Long explination: If the model comes with a circuit board that looks like it has a connector/socket, you should theoretically just be able to plug in a board. That said, that isn't always gaurenteed. Always google your model train and "DCC install" for example, "Bachmann SD40-2 DCC install" and see what comes up.
If you loco has no circuit board, you'll have to hard wire everything. This includes putting in an appropriate resistor for lights or leds. You may have to do additional work if the motor is grounded to the frame. Best to get someone who has done this once or twice to show you how. It can be tricky. (Especially on brass)
That said, the vast Vast VAST majority of decoders sold today are both DC and DCC ready. This means they will run on regular DC layouts. There are two cavaets.
1) Your speed will be decreased significantly. You'll lose about 3 volts off your top end.
2) Also your control range will also decrease. Decoders need at least 3V->5V to power up. So this takes at least 3 volts off your bottom end.So 12V - 3 Volts = 9 Volts operational range to control speed...but even at the top of the throttle range you will run slower compared to a non DCC decoder install. (Leaving it analog)
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Brammy Thanks Paul, This is something I'm going to have to sub out, or get some serious help with. I'm color blind, which is really going to make the wiring a challenge. :)
Luckily, there are standards for the order of the wires on the various plugs - I never use decoders that have wires soldered directly to them if I cna help it, I use the ones with the 9 pin plugs, so there is a standard order to the wires on the harness which means it won;t matter if you can;t tell the different between the colors, the 4th wire from the left is always the same wire. Some locos use NMRA color coded wiring internally, but others just use all black wires, but those you can trace out to see whcih one goes to the left pickups, which goes to the right pickups, etc. So while it makes the job a little more challenging that it is for someone who can distinguish all the colors in the harness, the fact that there are standards makes it perfectly doable even if you need a cheat sheet at hand to say which wire (physically in position on the connector) performs what function.
It may seem overwhelming but after you see how a few are done it's really not all that difficult. Working carefully and remembering to slide on the heat shrink BEFORE soldering the wires together (don't ask) are the key parts of a successful install. You do have some locos that should be more or less just basic plug in installs, no real wiring needed. It will probably be more difficult to get the shell off the loco than to actually install a decoder.
I haven't measured it but I think the suggestions of a 3V or worse drop in the decoder are slightly exaggerated. The decoder detects the lack of a DCC signal and opens the drive transistors full on, so you really should only see a 2 diode drop, about 1.2-1.4 volts. If you have locos that already have a directional constant lighting for DC installed, they will have about the same or an even bigger drop due to the constant lighting diodes, so in truth there shouldn;t be a lot of difference between a decodered loco running on DC and a non-decodered loco that has directional constant lighting - P2k for example has a 3 or 4 diode drop ahead of the motor for the lights, which should actually be more than a decoder.
Just to close the loop out on this.
The people at the club are more willing to help me get the locos onto DCC. That said, the only times I *need* DCC are for operating sessions and the yearly club show. Operations can only be run on club equipment, and I don't have anything I'd like to run at the show anyway.
So, since 99% of what I want to do, I can probably just use DC on, I'm not sure it's worth the expense of converting some of the locos to DCC. I'll probably do it at some point, but I'm sure there are ways I can spend money on the hobby that I'll get more gain from.
For N-scale, some of the locos I have look like they will require some hefty disassembly, so with those I might just convert the EL e8s for Ntrak DCC and just buy DCC ready stuff going forward.