I have read this thread several times. The more I read it, the more perplexing it becomes.
The loco derails. It dies. The Power Cab resets. It mostly misbehaves on left turns, whatever that means. It stalls on turnouts and crossings. All of this on a 4 x 8 layout? What the heck kind of track plan do you have?
After the Power Cab resets, or after the loco stalls, there is no sound until you touch the throttle, though the headlight will light dimly.
It does seem to have good pulling power though. LOL
Sorry, I couldn't resist. No, this is not a common issue with BLI steamers.
I'm not sure where to even begin. It would be interesting to observe the loco's performance on a simple oval without turnouts and crossings.
Rich
Alton Junction
If there are multiple holes in the tender drawbar, you need to be in the furthest one, you can;t even begin to consider close coupling on 22" and 18" radius curves.
It sounds like the curves are sharp enough to cause a short somewhere - track plan details would help. This loco will never be happy on a spaghetti bowl plan crammed into a 4x8.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Dave, I don't have the huge amount of time and skill in this hobby that most of the guys spending time on this forum have, but I do have over 10 years in, on my fourth layout construction as I type, and I have over 27 locomotives by now, many of them BLI steamers. I have purchased at least six of those steamers off of the refurbished listing that BLI shows on their website. They all ran very well, and still do. I have had a couple of decoder failures, one of which BLI fixed for free, even though I had admitted to them that I had pooched it myself. They will make things right if it turns out you must return it to them. I have only ever had to return a 'new' loco to them once, a beautiful brass hybrid whose headlight didn't work.
My main reason for posting is to assure you that your experience with a new steamer matches mine perfectly...with respect to track problems. Every single instance of a new steamer, whether from Trix, Rivarossi, BLI, or whatever, has revealed a problem on my tracks somewhere. Every time!! My trackwork isn't excellent, but it's pretty darned good by now, and I still have to tweak the rails' heights now and then when a new loco derails. Oh, and both my Athearn Genesis modern diesels did the same...derailed on a curve.
What I have found is that the finer HO locomotives these days don't do well on curves with superelevation if the outer rail's elevation isn't constant and isn't overdone. Also, they don't like kinky joints.
I know that some locomotives will short when a truck's outer bearing somehow makes contact with the frame or with the metal cylinders. Tight curves and uneven track are the causes here.
When I have an intermittent performance problem with my BLI steamers, the first thing I suspect is the tether mechanism. They need to re-think them because they cause no end of frustration. Unless you can carefully grasp the loco without damaging or bending something, and use an implement to force the plug into the under-cab receptacle fully, you'll get weird behaviours. That plug must...MUST...be firmly and fully seated in its socket or you'll get sound, but iffy motive performance.
Other than that, or a defective tether or weak solder on the decoder, your 4-6-2 should give you no trouble on properly laid rails and on turnouts of 4.5 or higher that are not defective in some way and that are transmitting power along their lengths. I even have a tiny Proto 2000 0-8-0 running well on all my #6 DCC-friendly Pecos and my own hand-laid #8's with dead frogs.
This is getting long, but not nearly as long as it takes a determined modeller to figure out why a locomotive is not performing well. If the loco does well on tangent track, back and forth, then consider track curvature and joints, but also rail heights that are not consistent. I have had to wet the glued ballast, wait, and then lift the outer rail a hair, force some ballast grains under the ties, and then let it harden again. Did this for several feet. Then, my new locomotive ran well.
One time I felt it best to simply rip up an entire three feet of curved rail, ballast and all, and to re-lay it. That worked, so it was worth the effort to me.
If there is only one place this is happening, it's the rails. Get light on there, use a magnifying head-piece like an Opti-Visor, and slowly make the loco get to the point where you can see the derailment beginning. You'll soon see the problem.
Good luck.
Once you get your track issues straightened out, be sure to check the tender-to-engine electrical plug. Sometimes it is not seated fully. I use a wood skewer, the blunt end, to press on the plastic area of the plug on both sides to be sure it is seated well.
Good Luck, Ed
Thanks for the replies everyone!
Here is an image I found online of the same track plan. It's the Woodland Scenics Grand Valley.
This layout was started a few years back for my Nephews who unfortunately lost interest and it now resides in my basement while I design my new layout. It's been my test track for cars and locos while I begin my benchwork.
Aside from the curves being 18" radius, the track is laid quite well. And as I said, my other diesel and steam locomotives (including a much larger P2K berkshire, and a small P2K 0-6-0) and freight cars run extremely well on it.
That said, I did find what appears to be the issue with the tender derailing. The hole for the draw bar (I'm using the farthest) is a bit snug and if it was pressed up too close to the cab it would pull up on the front of the tender and slightly lift the front truck. Once I pushed it down a bit towards the track, the derailing all but stopped. The tender still seems a bit light though and if I keep it, will probably add a little extra weight.
However, the loco freezing is still the main issue. I do believe it's a short, and I do believe it's probably from the 18" radius curves. (which a Light Pacific should be able to handle and the manufacturer states as min radius.). There seems to be an unusual amount of lateral play in the drive wheels compared to all my other steam locomotives, so I'm not sure if that is the problem.
Most of the issues happen on the outside, left curve (where the building's #10 and #13 are marked). There is a dip there where one grade comes down (and flattens out where the track crosses over head) and then it starts going back up (about where the #10 is marked). This seems to be the biggest problem area. However, it also occurs randomly, and elsewhere.
I guess either way, It doesn't seem that it's right. I will probably be returning it to the vendor who has offered a refund. However I did email BLI and want to see what they say first.
richhotrain, I should have said when the loco is going counter clockwise on a curve. That said, you bring up a good idea. I should have enough track to create a simple oval, I'll see how it behaves on that. It won't be an exact experment though, because that track is 22" radius.
As to the DCC sound issue. When I place the loco on the track and select it's address.The headlight will shine dimly, but there will be no sound. No horn, no bell, no engine start up. Even if I hit f8. If I set the throttle to 01, the sound comes on and the headlight glows bright and the loco starts to move (and the horn and belll button now work). It does not however go through the loco start-up sequence as it should, and the sound goes right into chuff mode. This is the same when the engine stalls while operating, and my cab resets iteself. I hope that is clearer.
By the way selector, I want to thank you for such a detailed post. I really appreciate it! And think you are on to something, that it really doesn't like the transition between grades. most of the stalls have been at those points. It's mighty finicky.
I think I may have found the issue to the DCC/sound problem. Seems somebody before me created a long address and may have messed with it. This is a new Loco so I'm not sure where or when that may have happened. I reset everyhing and now I get my start-up sounds.
I set up a 22" radius test track using atlas code 83, along with a Peco #6 turnout. I had enough for about 3/4 of a circle and a couple straight sections off the turnout. The track was just set on the basement floor and the track segments pressure fit together and only secured by rail joiners; so they were not real secure. The loco did much better! It did stall twice where I had to move it a couple of inches by hand before it would re-start up. And it did de-rail once going backwards over the Peco turtnout. Overall though, I was able to run it back and forth a number of times without issue. It makes me wonder if part of the problem wasn't simply that the locos wheels were dirty and running it has helped to clean them. Because when I put it back on the 4X8, it did much better. Even made it all the way around a couple of times without freezing. Including travelling over the crossings and turnouts. Which begs the question, do I keep it until I lay the track on my new layout. It will be 22" minimum Radius and no grades. I'm just not sure if I feel like dealing with something that finicky or if it's really supposed to be that finicky.
The other issue beside the sharp curves on a small layoout like the WS plan is that the grade transistions tend to be sharp. It's not necessarily the grade the loco doesn't like, but the transition from grade to flat at the top or bottom. ON a larger layout those transitions can be more drawn out. At the top of the grade, an oversharp transition can cause the lead wheels of the loco to pop up or when the loco tips down to level, lift the front of the tender. At the bottom, you can have the driving wheels suspended without good track contact, or the front of the tender pressed down, raising the rear. If the transistions are straight, sometimes you get away with it. If they are on curves or involve turnouts (turnouts should never be oin a transistion though, always on the grade or on a flat area), all bets are off.
Dave, I have been between layouts for about 12 months now, and have never been one to run trains most weeks let alone most days. I forgot about the Paragon decoders. They are dead when placed on the rails, and dead when power is applied. By dead I mean they appear to be dead. It is only upon applying a throttle setting that the sound starts. The sound is startling, but it is so for all new decoders because they are set at the max for all volumes and for the Master Volume. My very first steps when getting a new BLI steamer are:
Invert the loco and slide the smoke switch to 'off'. I don't do smoke.
Set it on the rails with proper connections to the tender, and power up, apply the first speed step. The sounds come on if the throttle has Add "03" active.
I use the CV's to get to Master Volume, and set it to 50% of its maximum.
From there, I assign the loco its cab number and acquire it after the track power shuts off during the reassignment...it's automatic with the DT400 Digitrax type throttles.
After making it run back and forth to ensure there are no motive defects, I adjust all the individual CVs that control the chuff sound level, bell level, steam hiss, blow down, etc. Those sounds drive me crazy if they aren't something close to scale for how far I am from the locomotive...in scale.
I am very pleased to find you more enthusiastic about your purchase. We all have to learn some hard knocks in the hobby. God knows I have not been spared most of them. In three or four weeks it will all be old hat and you'll be having solid fun.
Then will come the next bit of learnin'. It'll be a suprise.
Nerfball6I'm just not sure if I feel like dealing with something that finicky or if it's really supposed to be that finicky.
Mike
The first thing I do with any new or used engine or one that I have installed a decoder, is reset the decoder. You never know what is in those pesky CVs.
Tuscarora The first thing I do with any new or used engine or one that I have installed a decoder, is reset the decoder. You never know what is in those pesky CVs.
Thanks again for all the replies everyone. It has helped!Good news. I believe I have gotten to the point where I am satisfied with the loco and won’t be sending it back.After resetting the decoder, finding the issue with the tender drawbar, cleaning the wheels, and adjusting two areas of track; the only place on the layout that it still hesitates is over an Atlas 90 degree crossing at slow speeds. Anything above speed step 8 and it travels through it just fine.I believe that the tender draw bar having too snug a hole and getting pushed too high up on the pole was the cause of the derailments, and possibly causing poor electrical connection. Fortunately, the track isn’t ballasted, and I found two spots where I made minor adjustments. one was at the top of a grade, and one near the bottom. After sanding the cork down a bit at the top of a grade - no more stalls. And after shimming a spot at the bottom of a grade, again, no more stalls. Very minor adjustments but enough to make the difference. in fact I only needed to shim it with a few piece of masking tape.I’m not sure what the issue is with the crossing. It seems to stall when the rear most tender trailing truck wheel-set hits the first gap of the crossing. When it stalls it doesn’t restart my DCC system, and will usually move forward again on it’s own after the stall.Selector, you were right about about the Paragon decoders seeming to be dead until the throttle is hit. It’s confusing because their manual states that the engine start-up sound is automatic when the power is turned on, however I found I only get the start-up sound after pressing the 9 button (which usually needs to be pressed twice before the engine start-up sound starts). That is why I didn’t get any sound until I activated the throttle first and the engine started to move.Thanks again!!!!Dave