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Programing Rule 17 on a TCS decoder

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  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Quebec, Canada
  • 868 posts
Programing Rule 17 on a TCS decoder
Posted by Guy Papillon on Thursday, June 9, 2016 9:52 AM

I installed a TCS LL8 in a P2K GP7 and everyting is going right except programming Rule 17.

What I want :

  • Forward : Bright Forward light, No rear light.
  • Reverse : Bright Reverse light, Dimmed Front light.

I can acheive that on all my NCE decoders but not on that TCS LL8 decoder. I tried many CV settings (CVs 49 & 50) by the instruction sheet but all I could acheive is :

  • Forward : Bright Forward light, Dimmed rear light.
  • Reverse : Bright Reverse light, Dimmed Front light.

As I run all my Geeps long nose forward, I had to put CV 29 to 35. Could this be the source of the ''problem'', if any problem it is?

Note : CV 61 = 49

Is there someone that can help on this one?

 

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

  • Member since
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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, June 9, 2016 4:56 PM

 Try 17 in CV61. 49 means opposite dim, which is exactly what you are getting.

                    --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Quebec, Canada
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Posted by Guy Papillon on Thursday, June 9, 2016 5:47 PM

Thanks for the suggestion. But it doesn't work.

With CV 61 = 17, the result is :

- Train stopped : both lights dimmed,

- Train running : both lights bright.

 

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, June 9, 2016 6:25 PM

 What do you have CV49 and CV50 at? They should be 8 and 24 to make the effect directional. Which one needs to be 8 and which one 24 depends on how you oriented the decoder and also the reversed direction with CV29. If either or both are 40, that means non-directional.

                          --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Quebec, Canada
  • 868 posts
Posted by Guy Papillon on Thursday, June 9, 2016 6:50 PM

Thanks again. I will try that tomorrow morning as I don't have access to the train room now. First thing of, I will put back CV 29 to 34 (short hood forward) to see what is the result after programming CVs 49 & 50 per the instruction sheet.

With the NCE decoders I had to invert the CVs, like you suggest, and modify one of the values, from trial & error, to achieve the desired results. As I can see it, whatever the brand, CV 29 can be used to invert direction but the CVs used for lighting are related to white and yellow wires and independent of CV 29.

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Friday, June 10, 2016 7:01 AM

 You can leave it inverted, but you may have to set CV49, white wire, to 24 and CV50, yellow wire, to 8 instead of the other way around if CV29 was set for normal. 8 means Rule 12 only in forward direction, 24 is rule 17 only in reverse direction. And no matter which, you can manually dim with F4.

                    --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Southern Quebec, Canada
  • 868 posts
Posted by Guy Papillon on Friday, June 10, 2016 8:50 AM

I am just out of the train room and I completely agree with you. I tried running that GP short cab forward (CV29=34) with other CVs (49 & 50) by the instruction sheet. With CV61=17, I get rule 17 for switcher. With CV61=49, I get bright front light and dimmed rear light when running forward and the inverse running backward. I put back CV29 to 35 and inverted the values for CVs 49 and 50 and got the inverted results. So I don't think it is possible to get the results I want for rule 17, bright front light and no back light when running forward.

 

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Trois-Rivieres Quebec Canada
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Posted by jalajoie on Friday, June 10, 2016 11:32 AM

This is what I use with TCS decoders

Completely independent lights control
F0 = Front light ON/OFF
 F1 = Rear light ON/OFF
F3 = Ditch light ON/OFF
F4 = When on Dim litght ON/OFF in the direction of travel
Rear light dim automatically when traveling forward and lit
CV Number
CV Value
CV Default
CV34
4
2
CV35
16
4
CV49
40
0
CV50
40
16
CV61
48
1
 
 
 
 
 
 
To have both lights ON at all time
CV49 = 32
CV50 = 32
Hope it help

Jack W.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Friday, June 10, 2016 6:12 PM

 Guy what did you have CV49 and CV50 at?

                 --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Southern Quebec, Canada
  • 868 posts
Posted by Guy Papillon on Friday, June 10, 2016 8:46 PM

Randy,

CV49: 24

CV50: 8

CV29 : 35

CV61 : 49

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Southern Quebec, Canada
  • 868 posts
Posted by Guy Papillon on Friday, June 10, 2016 8:51 PM

Jack,

Thank you for the info. Up to now I didn't play with the functions. I have hands full with the CVs. But the info will be used in a near future as I will concengrate on how to use functions to widen the choices in using DCC.

'Merci'

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:35 AM

 Strange, that should have the rear light totally off when moving forward, and vice-versa.

 I can't check and see what mine are set to, I have nothing set up to run trains or read decoders at the moment. Though I don;t use Rule 17, heck my railroad didn't even run locos with the headlights on in the daylight in the years I model.

 I wonder if the CV61 setting overrides the CV49/50 settings - try CV61 = 1, so you have BEMF, but that disables the parts of CV61 that control the Rule 17 lighting, and use the 8 and 24 in CV49/50 for directional Rule 17. My guess is it will work, but you can only dim the lights using F4, not automatically when stopped.

                               --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Southern Quebec, Canada
  • 868 posts
Posted by Guy Papillon on Saturday, June 11, 2016 3:18 PM

Randy,

with CV61=1, the result is:

- Forward: front light bright, back light Off,

- Reverse: front light Off, back light bright

No automatic dimming on stopping.

Maybe TCS decoders only consider Rule 17 for switching?

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Saturday, June 11, 2016 4:30 PM

 Perhaps. The setting for directional effect plus dim on stop would be the right setting (CV61=17). Not sure why you get opposite dim when set for dim on stop when opposite dim is the other value of CV61.

 With CV61=1, it should dim the light when you hit F4. That's more in line with real locomotive operation anyway, the lights don;t automatically switch or dim, there is a control for this the engineer must operate to dim or switch the direction of the lights.

                      --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Southern Quebec, Canada
  • 868 posts
Posted by Guy Papillon on Saturday, June 11, 2016 4:49 PM

rrinker

That's more in line with real locomotive operation anyway, the lights don;t automatically switch or dim, there is a control for this the engineer must operate to dim or switch the direction of the lights.

You are right. But if I go this way and want to be consistent, I would have to reprogram all the other locos accordingly.

 

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

  • Member since
    April 2002
  • 921 posts
Posted by dante on Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:19 PM

Guy,

For long nose forward, try the following:

CV 33: 2

CV 34: 1

CV 49: 16

CV 50: 8

CV 61: 1 (or 17 to dim when stopped)

CV 156: 0

CV 157: 15 (6 if LEDs)

Dante

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Southern Quebec, Canada
  • 868 posts
Posted by Guy Papillon on Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:53 PM

Thank you Dante. But once again, it didn't perform as expected. But I now better understand the use of CVs 33 & 34.

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

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