Small HO short line (ie limited funds) railroad in need of help.
I currently have about 8 DCC locos and don't want to spend $500+ on controllers so kids, dad and grandpa can run engines at the same time. What's the cheapest DCC option so we can all operate at the same time? I would like to have at least 4 controllers. Leaning towards Digitrax DCS51 with PR3? to run JMRI and then use withrottle on mobile devices (ie already have an available computer and everyone has mobile devices). I have some Bachmann DCC components but the walkaround controllers have in extremely tight supply for a long time so that doesn't seem to be an option? I'm new to DCC so what else exist?
Cheapest way is the SPROG3 which in addition to being a DCC programmer is a 2.5 amp command station/booster, plenty to run 4-5 locos at the same time. The ONLY throttle control it supports is through JMRI, so you would use WiThrottle and phones or on screen throttles to run trains. Assuming you already have a computer and a wireless network in your house, this would be the cheapest option.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
PRR01!
WiThrottles are cheaper, if you already have the home wifi network.
I would skip the PR3, opting instead for either the Sprog3 as was mentioned, or a Locobuffer-II in it's place. (The Locobuffer is shielded, so any power spikes/surges/lightning strikes will not damage both computer and layout. With PR3, they can damage both.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
WAY blown out of proportion, there's nothign wrong with the PR3, had mien for years.
But PR3 or Locobuffer menas also buying some Digitrax command station - SPROG3 makes it more or less your own DIY DCC system, just needs JMRI - it's the only way to control the SPROG. Literally all you need to buy is the SPROG3 and power supply, and install WiThrottle/Engine Driver app on each person's phone and off you go.
rrinker WAY blown out of proportion, there's nothign wrong with the PR3, had mien for years.
No offense meant here:
The PR3 is fine, until a power surge that gets to your computer goes through it to fry it, your PR3, your command station, SE8c, DT402, a loco decoder, etc....
Yes, this did happen to me... Said surge fried my computers UPS/Surge protector, got passed it to the computer motherboard, the USB cable to the PR3, PR3, Zephyr, SE8c, DT402, a loco decoder, and the cable between the PR3 and the Zephyr were all toasted. Digitrax repair was able to repair/replace all of their equipment,
That will never happen with a LocobufferII... It would stop there, thanks to it being shielded.
I am unsure of how a SPROG would react to that situation, so am deferring to someone in the know.
Again, no offense meant to anyone, just giving my experience so that others can avoid the same.
I don't know about the cost of the other options, but I use the Zephyr and 3 UTR4 throttles. No computer or wifi required.
SPROG3 complete with power supply is $135 including shipping. Computer, you already have, JMRI, free, and throttles - free, smartphones you already have. That's for a system with a 2.5 amp capacity, same as the old Zephyr and higher than anything else at that price point, which should easily run 6-8 locos simultaneously.
I don't even have one and I'm recommending this as the lowest cost option - I have an original Zephyr, PRX3, Locobuffer, and a DB150 extra booster at present.
Adding another vote for Sprog. Two wires to the track, one connection to the power supply, one connection to the computer USB. Great support by the Sprog team and there's a Yahoo group specific to Sprog monitored by the US and UK team.
Emman
Zephyr Extra, 1 UT4, 2 jump throttles. More than the SPROG option but not if you don't have teh smart phones and a WIFI network already.
Not necessarily - those $20 and $30 cheap Android phones run Engine Driver. And you don;t need an expensive latest whiz-bang router, the cheap phones won't connect at the higher speeds anyway. And don;t need to, for this application.
And I keep saying this as a long time Digitrax owner and user.
If you get a nearby lightning strike, that optoisolator in the Locobuffer won't protect anything. What it does protect against is ground loops if your outlets are wired incorrectly and you have the computer in a different outlet than the layout power - but this is a potential issue with ANY peripheral wired to your computer, it's not a DCC thing. It is possible to get as much as the full voltage between the ground terminals of two devices if one outlet has the hot and neutral wires reversed and the device connects the ground to the neutral side internally.
I bought a Tripp-lite line conditioner.
APC makes one for $50 at Amazon, but Tripp-lite has a better warranty in the case of damage.
APC:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009RA60/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_JT2ixb1Q1Z3B4
Tripp Lite:
http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-LC1200-Conditioner-Outlet/dp/B0000512LA
These clean up the power going to any supplies you have plugged in as well.
You shouldn't trust your stuff to do its own surge protection.
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
It sounds like most suggestions are already wireless, but I'd recommend wireless anytime you've got 3 or more throttles on a home-sized layout.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
ricktrains4824 rrinker WAY blown out of proportion, there's nothign wrong with the PR3, had mien for years. No offense meant here: The PR3 is fine, until a power surge that gets to your computer goes through it to fry it, your PR3, your command station, SE8c, DT402, a loco decoder, etc.... Yes, this did happen to me... Said surge fried my computers UPS/Surge protector, got passed it to the computer motherboard, the USB cable to the PR3, PR3, Zephyr, SE8c, DT402, a loco decoder, and the cable between the PR3 and the Zephyr were all toasted. Digitrax repair was able to repair/replace all of their equipment,
I don't claim to be an electrical engineer but FWIW, my understanding is that should not happen if you are using an uninterruptible power supply (UPS).
An electrical engineer down the hall from my office once said he couldn't get his UPS to operate properly which he apparently traced to some kind of line imbalance in the incoming power supply to the building. Called ComEd and fixed the problem, UPS worked as advertised. A UPS typically has some kind of battery which is actually the isolated power source. The wall AC just keeps the battery charged. As far as I know (I don't know enough to be incompetent) a decent UPS shouldn't let even a large sustained power surge through, short of a something like a direct lightning stike, in which case you would have a lot more damaged than just electronics.
There is nothing (at least, nothing affordable to the typical homeowner) that can POSSIBLY block a direct or nearly direct lightning strike. The amount of energy is incredible. Plus there are multiple paths - great, the AC power line is protected, what about the phone lines or coax cable to your cable modem?
rrinker There is nothing (at least, nothing affordable to the typical homeowner) that can POSSIBLY block a direct or nearly direct lightning strike. The amount of energy is incredible. Plus there are multiple paths - great, the AC power line is protected, what about the phone lines or coax cable to your cable modem? --Randy
Absolutely agree. It doesn't even have to be a wired electrical path like phone lines or coax.
Scroll down on this page to Pierre's post with photos/description of lightning damage. The strike hit a tree 75 feet from the house, traveled underground, turned when it hit bedrock (blowing up the ground in the process), and came up into the house from underneath the foundation via a lolly post in the basement.
No UPS or optoisolation is going to save you from that!
Surge protectors, branded Tripp Lite or Belkin are sold claiming various amount of protection rated in hundreds or thousands of joules. They have a lighted switch to indicate the surge protection is working.
Here on the Third World Electrical grid of central Maryland, any storm that brings 40 mph winds causes power outages ranging from milliseconds to days. The protection circuit in the protector gets fried and the light goes out, but the protector is behind the desk or stereo cabinet and you may not know you have a glorified extension cord with no surge protector, unless you look at it.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Yes, that is another important factor - even if you don;t get a strong surge, those little ones over time wear out the MOVs used for protection in these devices and they will no longer shunt the rated power levels or may fail completely. The better wuality surge supressors do have extra indicators that will tell you the protection is no longer functioning, but as you said, if it is buried down behind cabinets you won't be able to see those indicators. It's one of those things you should check periodically, like a smoke detector. While these things can't stop a massive lightning strike, the protection they offer your equipment from the day to day minor surges is worthwhile.
May I suggest another, more capable option than the Sprog?
Digikeijs new command station:
http://www.digikeijs.com/dr5000-dcc-multi-bus-centrale.html
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
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It is indeed more capable than the SPROG - it's also more than double the price. Didn;t see anything about US distributors yet.
It is a pretty neat device, working with multiple protocols including Loconet and ExpressNet. I see but one drawback - no option in either hardware or software to adjust the track output voltage, and with the supplied 10V power supply, it's 17.5V on the rails, which is a bit high for HO and definitely too much for N and Z.
The built-in Wifi can be handy. Even if just to link it back up to your home network without running cables or using some form of interface device.
I installed a whole house surge protector in my breaker box. No better than any other but it has a three year$/30,000 full coverage warantee for an investment of $80.00. That is about 60 cents a week for full replacement if it fails on every electrical device and appliance in the house. Hasn't failed yet but almost hope it will so I could update some things.