Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Help with PSX-AR

3603 views
23 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 544 posts
Help with PSX-AR
Posted by Tophias on Monday, February 29, 2016 10:09 AM

Recently divided my layout into 4 power districts using PSX breakers (see my previous thread from a couple of weeks ago), one of which is a PSX-AR to replace my Digitrax AR-1.  The AR-1 worked great, needing just one adjustment.  Now I need to adjust my PSX-AR and having read the instructions I am somewhat (OK, really!) confused.  As I understand what they say in the instructions, I can adjust the trip level through my DCC command station (Digitrax Super Chief).  My problem is I don't really understand how.  I'm sure it's probably easy but I guess I'm missing how to do it.  BTW, the issue is a train leaves a storage yard, which is one district, and enters the reverse loop with the PSX-AR,  stalls (shorts) for about 1-2 seconds, then it trips polarity and the engine proceeds. Can anyone offer help how to adjust the trip level, assuming that is the problem to begin with?  Thnx all.

  • Member since
    March 2015
  • 1,358 posts
Posted by SouthPenn on Monday, February 29, 2016 10:28 AM

Have you tried a different engine? I also have a PSX-AR and it does the same thing with one particular engine. Other wise it works great, even with a five engine consist. I'm speculating that it is a decoder problem.

You could also contact Tony's Train Exchange for help.

South Penn
  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 544 posts
Posted by Tophias on Monday, February 29, 2016 4:00 PM

I didn't even think of that.  I'm short of time but I will at least try that tonight and advise.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Monday, February 29, 2016 4:11 PM

How is the PSX-AR wired in relation to the PSX units?  It sounds like you wired the PSX-AR downstream from a PSX which you should not do. The PSX-AR needs to be wired in front of the PSX units. Otherwise, you have nested circuit breakers, of which the PSX-AR is one.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 544 posts
Posted by Tophias on Monday, February 29, 2016 5:39 PM

It is wired as a separate breaker/reverser directly from the command station only to the reverse loop.

and I tried a few other locos and consists and some went smooth but most paused.  It all cases if it pauses it clears within 2-3 seconds and all good.  I would just like to eliminate the pauses.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Monday, February 29, 2016 5:45 PM

Can you provide a photo or a wiring diagram showing how the PSX units and the PSX-AR are wired in relation to one another?  It seems to me that one circuit breaker is tripping the other - - - thus, the pause until both reset.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 544 posts
Posted by Tophias on Monday, February 29, 2016 6:28 PM

Just the PSX-ar is tripping, then clears

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Monday, February 29, 2016 7:28 PM

Tophias

Just the PSX-ar is tripping, then clears

 

OK, then don't provide a photo or wiring diagram.  I can only make the suggestion twice as to the possible problem.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 544 posts
Posted by Tophias on Tuesday, March 1, 2016 8:36 AM

Sorry Rich, I wasn't blowing you off.  I don't know how to post pics and was just trying to clarify the situation.  As I have stated in several others threads/posts, all the advise you and others have given me over the last 3 years has been of great value to me and I value your input.  Pretty much any/all things DCC that I know I have learned here.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, March 1, 2016 10:34 AM

Tophias

Now I need to adjust my PSX-AR and having read the instructions I am somewhat (OK, really!) confused.  As I understand what they say in the instructions, I can adjust the trip level through my DCC command station (Digitrax Super Chief).  My problem is I don't really understand how.  I'm sure it's probably easy but I guess I'm missing how to do it.  

BTW, the issue is a train leaves a storage yard, which is one district, and enters the reverse loop with the PSX-AR,  stalls (shorts) for about 1-2 seconds, then it trips polarity and the engine proceeds.

Can anyone offer help how to adjust the trip level, assuming that is the problem to begin with?   

Tophias, you are jumping to conclusions as you ask for help. That is why, I threw my hands up in frustration as you try to self-diagnose the very problem that you are asking for help with.

I cannot say for certain what is causing the problem on your layout, but I can tell you that a very similar problem occurred on a friend's layout. The problem with the (pause, stall, short), call it what you will, was caused by a delay as the PSX circuit breaker reset after detecting a short that the PSX-AR also detected (reverse polarity) and corrected. The pause (as I call it) was caused by the PSX circuit breaker detecting a short before the PSX-AR could correct it. As fast as the PSX-AR reacts to a short, in that split second, the PSX circuit breaker is affected by that short if the PSX-AR is wired downstream from the PSX.

Now, I know that you said that the PSX-AR is wired directly to the main booster. My friend thought that as well. But, how that PSX-AR is wired in relation to the PSX matters greatly. That is why a photo or a wiring diagram would help immensely.

Mind you, I am not saying for certain that is the problem. But, it is more likely the problem than the trip current adjustment on the PSX-AR. Take a look at the wiring diagram in the PSX-AR manual. Make sure that the PSX-AR is not wired downstream from the PSX.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 544 posts
Posted by Tophias on Tuesday, March 1, 2016 11:15 AM

Thnx Rich for staying with this for me.  I hope to find time tomorrow to get back to the layout to fully investigate things.  In the meantime, to help me better understand when I get there, when the trip/pause happens, and if only the PSX-ar short led lights up, does that mean only the PSX-ar is affected?  Obviously if one of the PSX short led's lights up then what you suggests is correct.  It just want to be better educated of what to expect when I start evaluating.  As always, thnx much for your help.

  • Member since
    March 2015
  • 1,358 posts
Posted by SouthPenn on Tuesday, March 1, 2016 11:28 AM

I'm confused, which is nothing new.

Does the PSX-AR trip it's breaker or does the engine just stall? 

South Penn
  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 544 posts
Posted by Tophias on Tuesday, March 1, 2016 1:32 PM

A sound loco leaves one district (a staging yard managed by a PSX) and enters the reverse loop managed by the PSX-ar.  When it crosses the gap it stops, the buzzer sounds (from what I am assuming is the psx-ar, while Rich is suggesting it might be from the yard PSX instead, which I never thought of) for 1-2 seconds, then clears and the loco continues on.  When I can return to the layout I will look at both breakers and see which short LED lights (maybe both?) when the loco crosses the gap.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Morristown, NJ
  • 808 posts
Posted by nealknows on Tuesday, March 1, 2016 1:46 PM

I have PSX-AR's on my layout wired from the command center to that section where it's needed. The other section preceeding it and proceeding it have circuit breakers. What I did to prevent the issue you describe is to put a 3/4" or 1" piece of track with insulated rail joiners on both ends. This prevents the problem you're having. I had that problem on my layout, and once I did this fix, problem solved. Any by the way, I have 10 PSX-AR's on the layout (not including the one I will install in my engine facility).

Neal

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, March 1, 2016 3:13 PM

SouthPenn

I'm confused, which is nothing new.

Does the PSX-AR trip it's breaker or does the engine just stall? 

 

If the problem that Tophias is experiencing is the same as happened on my friend's layout, the PSX trips. The circuit breaker on the PSX-AR is unaffected because the auto-reverser is doing its job, recognizing and correcting the reverse polarity. However, in the split second that it takes for the PSX-AR to match polarities, the PSX senses a short and trips. That may or may not be the problem on Tophias layout. The answer lies in how he has wired the PSX-AR in relation to the PSX.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 544 posts
Posted by Tophias on Tuesday, March 1, 2016 4:12 PM

So Rich, just got home long enough (headed out for a meeting) to see what's going on and you are absolutely right on!  It's the yard district PSX that is tripping.  As far  I know there is no wiring connection between the 2 districts, but obviously what do I know!!  LOL!  So I will have to crawl under tomorrow or Thursday and take a hard look.  When I introduced the breakers to the layout 3 weeks ago I thought I had completely isolated the 2 districts, but obviously there is an issue.  Probably where, on the old method, of hooking up the Digitrax AR-1 where I supplied power input from the yard power input, I haven't completely separated the 2 districts.  But if that's right, wouldn't the PSX-ar just short and not changed the polarity?  Just asking?

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, March 1, 2016 4:34 PM

The PSX-AR needs to be fed directly from the booster, not from the PSX. The PSX-AR has a reverser and breaker all in one, so it does not need any additional breaker between it and the power source. The AR-1 is just a reverser, so it needs a breaker in between to avoid shutting everything down if the problem is not just a loco exiting the reverse loop.

                           --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 544 posts
Posted by Tophias on Tuesday, March 1, 2016 4:50 PM

Randy, that's my problem!  As far as I know right now the PSX-ar is fed directly from the booster; that I know.  So could there be some reverse loop feeders connected to the yard (PSX) buss wires?  Anyway, I'll have to get underneath the layout and test many things.  But each district is powered directly from the booster, though each power input is daisy chained from the previous breaker from the input terminals as per the instructions.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, March 1, 2016 4:54 PM

Tophias

So Rich, just got home long enough (headed out for a meeting) to see what's going on and you are absolutely right on!  It's the yard district PSX that is tripping.  As far  I know there is no wiring connection between the 2 districts, but obviously what do I know!!  LOL!  So I will have to crawl under tomorrow or Thursday and take a hard look.  When I introduced the breakers to the layout 3 weeks ago I thought I had completely isolated the 2 districts, but obviously there is an issue.  Probably where, on the old method, of hooking up the Digitrax AR-1 where I supplied power input from the yard power input, I haven't completely separated the 2 districts.  But if that's right, wouldn't the PSX-ar just short and not changed the polarity?  Just asking? 

Chances are good that you have completely isolated the two districts and that there is no faulty wiring between the districts, at least as far as feeders go. But, that is not the issue. The issue is what Randy just said. The PSX-AR needs to be fed directly from the booster, not from the PSX. 

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, March 1, 2016 5:00 PM

Tophias

Randy, that's my problem!  As far as I know right now the PSX-ar is fed directly from the booster; that I know.  So could there be some reverse loop feeders connected to the yard (PSX) buss wires?  Anyway, I'll have to get underneath the layout and test many things.  But each district is powered directly from the booster, though each power input is daisy chained from the previous breaker from the input terminals as per the instructions. 

Tophias, before you start looking for errant feeder wires, can you draw out a simple wiring diagram of the wiring connections between the booster, the PSX units and the PSX-AR? That is likely your problem. Daisy chaining the various circuit breakers may well be placing the PSX-AR downstream of a PSX unit, a no-no.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 544 posts
Posted by Tophias on Tuesday, March 1, 2016 10:44 PM

Rich, couple of things.  I don't know how to get a photo or diagram to show here. But to your question, when  say I have daisy chained the breakers, it's just following the DCC Soecialties instructions relative to powering the breakers thru their inputs, not their outputs.  But I  will disconnect the PSX-ar input from the daisy chain and get it completely directly from command station. The outputs, as far as I know, are isolated, but obviously that may (probably) be incorrect.  I wish I knew how to get photos/diagrams into my posts but being over 60 I have no experience with it. .  Let me rewire the input, check continuity from the PSX district to the PSX-ar district, and from the PSX-ar district to the other PSX district at the other end of the reverse loop and see where I'm at. I'm guessing, but will have to see, that their must be some connection between the two districts.  But I'll start with updating the input first.  Give me 2 days, tomorrow I'm tied up.  Again, thnx!

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, March 2, 2016 4:32 AM

Tophias, I sent you a PM.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 544 posts
Posted by Tophias on Monday, March 7, 2016 5:20 PM

If you just read my reply to my other thread then this is a bit of a duplicate, but not completely.  After speaking with Eric at Tony's Trains he instructed me to add jumpers to all the boards from J7-3 to J7-4, plus, he helped me program the Yard board.  First I moved the programming jumper to the program position then we changed CV55 = 1 and moved the jumper back to run.  Works like a charm.  I really appreciate all the input from every one here (you out there Rich?) and hope if anyone else has this issue its's an easy fix, once you know what to do.  If all else fails, call TT.  Thanks all.

  • Member since
    March 2015
  • 1,358 posts
Posted by SouthPenn on Monday, March 7, 2016 8:37 PM

Thanks for letting all of us know what the problem was and how to fix it; in both threads.

South Penn

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!