Hi,
Quick question for those of you with experience with TCS WOW sound decoders, specifically a WOW101:
They sell versions with and without external keep alive units (eg: TCS-1517 vs TCS 1516 for steam). But the non keep alive units still appear to have an external power cap wired in to them according the the pictures on their website.
Won't this provide some minimal/less amount of 'keep alive' function? If so, how much? My DCC ready locos run smoothly without stuttering already (on DC), and I'm trying to figure out if keep-alive is something I need to invest in.
The keep alive is another capacitor. In fact it's a very very large capacitor. It's total charge Q (measured in Farads) might be 100x's of times larger then the standard cap. Standard caps are designed for a few hundred milliseconds power tops. It's to compensate for momentary drop outs on the pickups which is a common occurance. Standard caps are not designed for long power outages.
BTW: You can thank NASA for inventing super caps. :-)
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
If your engines run well on DC, they probably won't need the "keep alive" in DCC - although sound decoders can be a little 'finicky' and sometimes lose power easier than a regular decoder or a DC engine. It can be annoying to have an engine chuffing along suddenly to stop making sound (without stopping), then come back to life and have the chuffs slowly speed up until they're back in synch. The 'normal' capacitor is meant to try to prevent that momentary loss of contact causing a re-start to the sound.
Since the "keep alive" is available as a separate add-on (you can get TCS decoders with it included inside), you can install the TCS decoder and add the "keep alive" later if you decide you need it.
I have a first-run LL/Proto 0-8-0 - the ones that had no tender power pickup - that couldn't run more than an inch or two without being pushed. With the TCS "keep alive" it runs great.
The below fellow is quite experienced with Stay Alive. He started a few years ago with a capacitor, diode and resistor until stay alive modules came out.
Store the link in Favorites or Bookmarks for future reference. He is active in Yahoo DCC groups but does not come here so far.
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
The keep alive is different than the cap that comes standard with the non-keep alive decoder. I have used various sizes of non-keep alive caps and while they do make a difference, they mainly just smooth out the running slightly. The size limit prevents getting any meaningful capacitance in regular caps.
Sound decoders are quite a bit more finicky than non-sound decoders in terms of momentary power loss, but the axiom that a good running DC/DCC loco will run well with sound generally accurate in my experience. I have lots of very short wheel base brass locos. The keep-alives in these locos have been nothing short of a miracle. They run smooth with no stalls or drop outs over tortured track that has been assaulted with dirt, glue, and paint repeatedly.
I will be adding keep-alives to everything on my layout going forward that isn’t large articulated steam or diesel (fat chance there will be diesels… but hey you never know). I would recommend keep-alives simply because they are easy to install with the decoder the first time and there is nothing fun about redoing an install later to add them…
Your mileage may vary,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Having a new Loc sound select decoder with a Keep alive installed in my Max Gray DRGW L105 and if that works out well I'll probably be retrofitting all my decoder equipped brass with Keep Alives.
You can get TCS decoders with the Keep Alive already inside. Some TCS decoders have a simple two-pin receptacle that a Keep Alive plugs in to, so it's a very easy retro install in those cases.
I have Keep Alive in two of my N scale steam locomotives, and they're amazing. They can go on for 8 seconds (sound, motor, and lights) without power before they stop. I have seen in N scale that people put the Keep Alive in trailing boxcars for N scale diesels.
It certainly sounds as though the consensus opinion is pretty far tipped in favor of keep-alives. For the modest extra initial cost, it's probably worth my while to just include it in the installation from the start, rather than have to open everything up again later.
RRR_BethBr It certainly sounds as though the consensus opinion is pretty far tipped in favor of keep-alives. For the modest extra initial cost, it's probably worth my while to just include it in the installation from the start, rather than have to open everything up again later.
It's a no brainer really if you are a DCC user - the only thing is the usual things like money adn time to install etc. which I don't have enough of ether! I guess thats why they call it a hobby aye?
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Keep in mind if your running the newer plastic locomotives with all wheel pick up the keep alive is probably not neccesary.....
I have the WOW steam decoder #1511, Version 1 and don't think it has the KA addition. When I shut the layout power off this loco continues to 'sound off' for at least 15 seconds? I have never had it loose power on the layout (it is in a Proto 2-8-8-2 though). If I understand the KA, it is an additional wrapped circuit that has to be mounted in addition to the main decoder, and mine doesn't have that. BTW, it is one of the best 'sound' locos I have (about 20 locos so far!).
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
The 1511 had the KA built in to the unit, that's why the wrapped package is so thick. That's why it keeps making noise for 15 seconds after you power off your layout.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker The 1511 had the KA built in to the unit, that's why the wrapped package is so thick. That's why it keeps making noise for 15 seconds after you power off your layout. --Randy
Randy,
I figured it must have something built into it or it wouldn't run on so long, but haven't checked the literature that came with the decoder. I didn't rememeber seeing in on the description when I bought it, but then at my age I tend to miss a lot lately? I wish all decoders had this feature, then I wouldn't have to listen to 15 or more locos restart everytime there is a short interuption in the power (my 5 year old great grandson runs my trains everyday and has sweaty palms!).