Sugar cube speakers

[Burlington Steam]

i understand these new speakers are quite good,I saw where a very small one was used in a Bachmann Rs 3 with a Esu Locksound select decoder and was really quite impressive sounding,my question is I'm planning on using the Locksound Select heavy steam decoder in my Max Gray DRGW L105 Challenger and am curious as to the best size sugar cube speaker to use,there's a ton of space in its tender of course but is bigger really better?

hoping someone has experience with this type of set up.!!

[hon30critter]

Burlington Steam:

I have used several 'sugar cube' speakers and they produce excellent sound. All of them were 11mm x 15mm so I can't directly answer your question about size, but I have never seen any comments that would suggest that one size is better than another. I think the old adage that "bigger is better" probably applies here too but you are likely splitting hairs.

In your case, since you have lots of space, you might consider using four of them to maximize the sound. They would be wired as two pairs of speakers in series, then those pairs would be wired in parallel. That will result in 8 ohms of impedance.

If you haven't seen this website it's worth a read. There are diagrams showing various wiring setups including the one I suggest. There are three pages you should have a look at:

http://www.sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/wiringmultispeakers.html

http://www.sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/sugarcubespeakernotes.html

http://www.sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/wiringmultispeakers.html

One other possibility in your case would be to fit individual speakers in the body of the locomotive itself. By doing that, the sound would be coming from where it should be as opposed to from the tender.

Note that sugar cube speakers must have a baffle which is sealed tight. It doesn't have to be big, but the sound is terrible without one.

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here. Sugar cube speakers are fantastic when space is limited. However, in your situation, you have lots of space to work with. I would consider installing 2 larger conventional speakers, one specifically designed for deep bass and the other for higher tones. If you wire them in parallel you will get 4 ohms impedance which is perfect for the Loksound decoder.

I hope I haven't confused the issue too much.

Dave

 

[Mark R.]

I personally have never been a fan of speakers in the tender of a steam engine. Get your face down at trackside to watch it roll by and the whole illusion is shattered as the engine rolls silently by followed all the noise coming from the tender.

This is where the beauty of the sugar cube speakers come in. You can actually place them where they belong .... in the engine. I've only done maybe half a dozen steam installs as opposed to an untold number of diesels, and each of them garnered great compliments as to the sound coming from the engine itself as opposed to the usual tender install.

Sure, it's more work to get the speaker(s) in the engine as opposed to popping off the tender shell, installing a speaker and slapping it back together. In all honesty, it's worth the extra time and effort .... especially the first time you are watching up close at track level and the sounds are coming from where they should be.

Mark. 

[peahrens]

I've converted a number of HO diesels to DCC lately and for the narrow hood units (RS-2, GP9, Dash 9, GP-50/60, etc) I've used 2-4 sugarcubes.  For those I mostly used Knowles "Grand" 13x18mm speakers.  For the GP9 I used one of those and one 11x15mm as that combo fit best.  I make enclosures from 0.040" styrene, CA glued together and then smearing some silicone on the joints to ensure good sealing.  I got mine from DigiKey, cheap and fast.

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?vendor=0&keywords=knowles+grand

 

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?keywords=knowles%20donau

I happen to be using LokSound Selects most times and am quite pleased with them. They handle 4-16 ohms, though lowest is noted as preferred.  Not sure how important that is as I always turn down the sound somewhat.  I leaned toward the larger sugarcubes as they usually fit (even two in a RS-2) and I figured larger is better.  My best result to date is 4 speakers in some Kato GE C44-9s. 

For a E6 and two PAs, with the much wider cab, I had room for dual 1.1" Hi-Bass speakers (from Tony's Trains, with enclosure).  Those outperform IMO, likely because of the significantly larger driver surface area.  So I'd consider a pair of those in a HO Challenger tender if I was doing that.  I will be doing the same to a pair of Erie Built cab units I have in line. 

I'll post here a link to a video that compares a RS2 with two sugarcubes to a PA with two 1.1" Hi-Bass.  I presume you can look at other youtubes from there, e.g., the GP9 (including what the sugarcubes can sound like without an enclosure), plus my favorite (so far, maybe because I got the enclosures a bit larger) Dash 9. 

     

 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcP-j4Fqe5z_STY-8F1OFEA?view_as=public

 

 

[hon30critter]

Hey Paul:

The video was a very good comparison of the two different speaker arrangements. The PA obviously had more bass but they both sounded good.

I guess it adds weight to the argument that bigger is better, but if you don't have space for the larger bass speakers then the sugar cubes do work well.

Thanks for the video.

Oh, I didn't know that PAs also sounded like ringing telephones when they start up.

Dave

[peahrens]

Dave, it's been fun to experiment.  I'm hoping a loco acquisition will have the space for 3 (vs 4) sugarcubes so I can try that.

I am interested in whether there are sugarcube speakers somewhat larger than the 13x18s that we might use, or whether there are different ones than the Knowles brand that might for some reason be "better", just like the wide variety in stereo speakers quality.  I guess SBSBackshops and Tonys Trains brand(s) they sell would be an indication of quality?  On a larger size, a 18x(larger) would fit the hood units in the long direction and coul be up to about 1.1" wide for HO cab units. 

[rrinker]

 Wow, the RSC2 sounds great, but then that PA - whoa! Continues to confirm my decision to standardize on Loksound is definitely the way to go, that Alco lope is just perfect, and the horns - loud and clear.

                            --Randy

 

[Burlington Steam]

Wish to thank you all for the information and ideas!!