Okay, let me know if you get sick of these threads, but they are incredibly helpful for me. I've done some searching here on MR and on the web for install photos and descriptions for Atlas/Kato RS-1s and RS-3s. I pulled one of each out of dry storage and took the photos below.
Two threads have been helpful in thinking this through: this one describes a really thorough sound installation, including modifications to the weights, etc. http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/218342.aspx?page=1 The second one is a Bruce Petrarca sound installation: http://www.mrdccu.com/install/hods/Atlas-RS1-828043.htm (And yes, after reading the MRR thread, I popped the RS-3 weights out of the shell! )
If I'm interested in just a basic, non-sound install, however, which basic decoder is the way to go? and what is the easiest way to deal with replacing the center bulb/light pipe arrangement that originally came with these locos, to LEDs wired into the decoder? Neither of these locos have much sentimental value, so just looking for "basic and easy" to get them back up and running.
I have one NCE DA-SR decoder on hand as it stands, but it looks like that may be aimed at a much more recent locomotives? is there a simpler decoder for a 1980s vintage Kato locomotive?
Additional question: I can see now why people talk about the flexing of the walkways and pilots on these things. Is it worth replacing the walkway assembly; and if it is does anyone have a source and/or part number that will work?
Again, I really appreciate the advice and helpful discussion you all provide here while I fumble through each new install.
Erie RS-3
RS-3 shell and walkway
RS-1
The RS's get something like the TCS A4X, it replaces the plastic board. You need to do some surgery if you want to have seperate front and rear lights - if you look in the shell you will see the two light pipes, I cut mine just inside the first set of pins that hold them in. Polish up the end with super fine sandpaper, or drill intot he end with a 3mm drill, and glue in a 3mm LED - this is a job for Faller Xpert cement though it will probably be fine if you use anythign else that dries clear, like even plain Elmer's. If the light pipe won;t stay on the pins, I put a dab of Elmer's on it, it will hold but if I ever need to take it out, just pull and it will come off. You can either use a 1K reistor with each LED and connect them to the middle tabs on the ends, or if you look at the instruction sheet, there is an alternative solder point for the white and yellow function lines that already have resistors, so you cna just connect the LEDs directly there.
The DA-SR will also work, it replaces the plastic board, same as the TCS. There are links marked on the instruction sheet to cut which will enable built-in resistors for the headlight and rear headlight to use LEDs directly.
I have about a half dozen of the RS3's, all undecorated. Plus two MDCs, a pair of Athearns, and a brass one. Hmm, which diesel do I like best?
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The RS-3 looks analogous to the Kato RS-2s that I converted. I had first converted one to DCC motor only with a TCS plug-in 8-pin decoder, very easy. The 2nd I acquired and it had a NCE someone had installed. But they were quiet.
Recently I converted both to sound. I installed 2 13x18mm sugarcube speakers crosswise against the long hood, behind the end weight where I had ground off the 1/4" of so "tab" extension. This provided room in the long hood, between the end weight and the cab, for both the speaker pair and a LokSound Select Aux6 decoder. Hard wired and the light board removed. The light pipes were shortened within the weights so an LED (I used 5mm but 3mm would be easier) would fit there. The two speakers were glued together and fit into the hood, with end caps made of thin styrene sheet, and the teeny enclosure (the curved hood top) was sealed at each end and along the long edge with silicone. Everything just barely fit. You could make it easier with the smaller micro decoder and one (vs two) or smaller (11x15) speakers. One sounds a little better than the other, maybe better sealing of the mini-enclosure space.
It looks to me that the RS-1 has a somewhat lower hood, that could make things tighter.
It was worth the effort for me. The Alco 244 sound file is pretty cool. I run the pair consisted with a GP9 that has a LokSound also and the trio is fun to run and listen to.
While different locos, maybe this info relates enough to be useful.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
rrinker The RS's get something like the TCS A4X, it replaces the plastic board. You need to do some surgery if you want to have seperate front and rear lights - if you look in the shell you will see the two light pipes, I cut mine just inside the first set of pins that hold them in. Polish up the end with super fine sandpaper, or drill intot he end with a 3mm drill, and glue in a 3mm LED - this is a job for Faller Xpert cement though it will probably be fine if you use anythign else that dries clear, like even plain Elmer's. If the light pipe won;t stay on the pins, I put a dab of Elmer's on it, it will hold but if I ever need to take it out, just pull and it will come off. You can either use a 1K reistor with each LED and connect them to the middle tabs on the ends, or if you look at the instruction sheet, there is an alternative solder point for the white and yellow function lines that already have resistors, so you cna just connect the LEDs directly there. The DA-SR will also work, it replaces the plastic board, same as the TCS. There are links marked on the instruction sheet to cut which will enable built-in resistors for the headlight and rear headlight to use LEDs directly. I have about a half dozen of the RS3's, all undecorated. Plus two MDCs, a pair of Athearns, and a brass one. Hmm, which diesel do I like best? --Randy
Randy, this is really helpful, particularly about how you attached the LEDs. The TCS site actually has two different sets of install photos, one for the RS3 and the other for the RS1, both using the A4X, but they show different ways of dealing with the lights. On the RS3, I don't think the number boards light up (or else they are painted over?). I can see the light pipes to the number boards on the RS1. So I may try slightly different methods with each of these.
Do you know if undec shells for these are still available? I think I might appreciate them more with different paint schemes, where depending on my mood I could swap them out for different road names. Plus I could brush up on my painting skills.
peahrens The RS-3 looks analogous to the Kato RS-2s that I converted. I had first converted one to DCC motor only with a TCS plug-in 8-pin decoder, very easy. The 2nd I acquired and it had a NCE someone had installed. But they were quiet. Recently I converted both to sound. I installed 2 13x18mm sugarcube speakers crosswise against the long hood, behind the end weight where I had ground off the 1/4" of so "tab" extension. This provided room in the long hood, between the end weight and the cab, for both the speaker pair and a LokSound Select Aux6 decoder. Hard wired and the light board removed. The light pipes were shortened within the weights so an LED (I used 5mm but 3mm would be easier) would fit there. The two speakers were glued together and fit into the hood, with end caps made of thin styrene sheet, and the teeny enclosure was sealed at each end and along the long edge with silicone. Everything just barely fit. You could make it easier with the smaller micro decoder and one (vs two) or smaller (11x15) speakers. One sound a little better than the other, maybe better sealing of the mini-enclosure space. It looks to me that the RS-1 has a somewhat lower hood, that could make things tighter. It was worth the effort for me. The Alco 244 sound file is pretty cool. I run the pair consisted with a GP9 that has a LokSound also and the trio is fun to run and listen to. While different locos, maybe this info relates enough to be useful.
Recently I converted both to sound. I installed 2 13x18mm sugarcube speakers crosswise against the long hood, behind the end weight where I had ground off the 1/4" of so "tab" extension. This provided room in the long hood, between the end weight and the cab, for both the speaker pair and a LokSound Select Aux6 decoder. Hard wired and the light board removed. The light pipes were shortened within the weights so an LED (I used 5mm but 3mm would be easier) would fit there. The two speakers were glued together and fit into the hood, with end caps made of thin styrene sheet, and the teeny enclosure was sealed at each end and along the long edge with silicone. Everything just barely fit. You could make it easier with the smaller micro decoder and one (vs two) or smaller (11x15) speakers. One sound a little better than the other, maybe better sealing of the mini-enclosure space.
Paul, this is also really helpful, sooner or later I'm going to break down and try a sound installation, not sure if either of these is the one to cut my teeth on, but it is really nice to know you got it to work on your RS2. The RS1 hood looks like it's a tad wider than that of the RS3, but I'm thinking that's an optical illusion. Although there is definitely more space in the cab in the RS1.
anyway, I'll have to listen to the sound files, you might tempt me into trying it.
The new Atlas (China) ones have 8 pin plugs and no more plastic 'circuit board'. Newer Kato locos also have 8 pin plugs. The Atlas/Kato ones all have those plastic boards with the two long wires which ping the motor leads and the single light bulb in the middle, and extend out over the neds for the truck pickups to attach to.
My undecs were aquired by watching eBay for a long time - undec usually selles for more than one already painted. You can always find painted ones and strip them first. They are running a new release of them, including undecorated with both types of stacks, in both sound and non-sound. The sound ones come with a Loksound decoder already installed. Prices are a lot higher than the old Kato ones, $150 list price for the DC ones, $250 for sound. If they did a Reading one I'd buy more, can never have too many RS3s. The Loksound Alco prime movers were recently re-recorded to improve the quality, the old one sounded good so the new one should be amazing.
rrinker The new Atlas (China) ones have 8 pin plugs and no more plastic 'circuit board'. Newer Kato locos also have 8 pin plugs. The Atlas/Kato ones all have those plastic boards with the two long wires which ping the motor leads and the single light bulb in the middle, and extend out over the neds for the truck pickups to attach to. My undecs were aquired by watching eBay for a long time - undec usually selles for more than one already painted. You can always find painted ones and strip them first. They are running a new release of them, including undecorated with both types of stacks, in both sound and non-sound. The sound ones come with a Loksound decoder already installed. Prices are a lot higher than the old Kato ones, $150 list price for the DC ones, $250 for sound. If they did a Reading one I'd buy more, can never have too many RS3s. The Loksound Alco prime movers were recently re-recorded to improve the quality, the old one sounded good so the new one should be amazing. --Randy
well, you got me thinking. I pulled an old Stewart AS-16 out of cold storage, I had pretty much consigned this unit to the "throw it on the old Athearn RIP track pile," but the shell is pretty much a drop-on to the RS3 Kato drive (see photos below). This would also have the benefit of eliminating the RS3 flexing sill issue at the same time.
If I do this, I might have to mill the frame just a bit if I want the shell to sit lower on the frame (or mill the inside lip of the shell) and have the skirt of the side sill cover the frame, but I'm probably the only one who would notice that anyway. To my eye it looks like it's riding a bit high just resting there. I'd also have to live with the trucks being a little closer together than they should be. Also the rear weight is a tight squeeze into the Stewart cab, might try to find some moldable lead to fit in there instead.
But this may be a possible solution, I've always liked this AS-16 unit even though it's a bit of a clumsy runner. So I appreciate your helping me think a bit more creatively about this. Sorta just thinking out loud here . . . .
Anyone have any tips for attaching the shell to the frame? the Athearn drive had frame mounted couplers that the Stewart shell screwed on to; the Atlas/Kato RS3 frame is a tad shorter overall, so as the shell centers on the frame there's about a quarter inch gap's worth of play fore and aft.
I think the truck wheelbase is too short - the trucks look inset from the ends too far. My AS-16's both run very nice, but they are the newer Stewart drive. They have an 8 pin socket but it's UNDER the circuit board - I used a TCS DP2X in mine, the decoder is essentially built on the 8 pin plug, very tiny. These are the locos where I switched the LEDs (Stewart used actual orange LEDs, not golden white) and I added more resistors to what was on the board because they were so bright.
I hadn't really noticed any flexing on my Atlas/Kato RS3s, yeah the walkway is somewhat flimsy, so you have to be careful sliding it off, but once it's all together it should sit tightly against the metal frame and not bend.
Bowser has reported that they will be issueing new RS3s based off the old Stewart kits - guess I will have to buy more. The original Stewart ones were a flat kit (seperate sides and ends for the hoods, not a once piece body) but they also offered enough parts in the kit to build nearly any variation in louvers and other details. The only real downside of them was the modified Athearn drive with a rather flimsy chassis.
The MDC ones came with at least 2 drives, the older ones were Athearn, and the ones I have both have the chassis out of the P2K FA, the original release that had the radiator fan powered via a rubber band off the one flywheel. What's included in the kit is the bare chassis with motor, flywheels, and gears - the rear flywheel has the groove in it for the fan belt. Might as well be Athearn, it even has the two clips standing up from the trucks, although with wire connecting them to the motor.
"wheelbase" that's the word I was looking for. I didn't get much sleep last night, not sure how clearly I'm thinking.
I agree about that. looks weird. I could also just drop a new motor into the existing Stewart frame, a Kato drive would run me about 30 bucks. But I'm not a big fan of the Stewart trucks, I'd probably want to swap those out too. But I'm thinking that's my new plan for the LV 200.
The answer to your AS-16 is on the Bowser page here: http://www.bowser-trains.com/history/pschassis.html
#691-1220 SOund chassis (powered) for AS-16. Decoder already installed, just put your shell on it. Bowser uses a full Loksound decoder, not some cut down limited feature one. I have an FT one (I actually got the Tsunami one, didn;t like it, traded to someone who had the Loksound one) and also one for one of my DS4-4-1000s. I will say I paid nowhere near list for these. They don;t have any right now, but the $199 list ones, Modeltrainstuff usually has for $120, that's about the price of the decoder and speaker, and you are also getting a power chassis with motor.
rrinker The answer to your AS-16 is on the Bowser page here: http://www.bowser-trains.com/history/pschassis.html #691-1220 SOund chassis (powered) for AS-16. Decoder already installed, just put your shell on it. Bowser uses a full Loksound decoder, not some cut down limited feature one. I have an FT one (I actually got the Tsunami one, didn;t like it, traded to someone who had the Loksound one) and also one for one of my DS4-4-1000s. I will say I paid nowhere near list for these. They don;t have any right now, but the $199 list ones, Modeltrainstuff usually has for $120, that's about the price of the decoder and speaker, and you are also getting a power chassis with motor. --Randy
that works!! certainly makes that a lot easier. now I can concentrate on building up my RS3 fleet.
I was really anxious to get the DS4-4-1000 sound and power chassis, because I already had several EMDs with sound, and an Alco and a Trainmaster - the Baldwin is a completely different animal, so it's nice having all the different sounds, each very distinctive. I don't know that I'll ever have sound in all of my locos, but having it in 2 out of 3 or 4 in consist gives a pretty good effect.
rrinker I was really anxious to get the DS4-4-1000 sound and power chassis, because I already had several EMDs with sound, and an Alco and a Trainmaster - the Baldwin is a completely different animal, so it's nice having all the different sounds, each very distinctive. I don't know that I'll ever have sound in all of my locos, but having it in 2 out of 3 or 4 in consist gives a pretty good effect. --Randy
I'm pretty convinced on the Loksound vs the Tsunami, so I will wait for someone to have the AS16 sound chassis in Loksound.
I've got another question for you, maybe you can answer it here or else I can start a new thread. I've got a Walthers Mainline/Proto 1000 RS-2 that I had almost completely forgotten about, pulled it out and am looking at the board. Have done some searches here on MR and at TCS etc, I'm seeing older installations of what I take to be an earlier Proto 1000 incarnation of this loco. TCS for example installs an MC2 decoder which involves cutting traces and some hard-wiring.
I have to imagine that there exists out there a completely drop-in non-sound decoder for this unit by now? do you happen to know what it is if in fact one exists? really appreciate it.
ps. thought to add a photo--I believe under the tape there's a 9-pin connector, so if that's the case would an NCE D13SRJ work? I've got one of those somewhere on the bench. Or is there another TCS decoder that would be better? I appreciate the help.
Okay, well, I figured that one out on my own. Found a couple more recent links elsewhere online (as an aside: does anyone else find the MR seach function to be needlessly clumsy?), and in fact the D13SRJ worked fine. I don't even remember buying it, but I suspect I told the hobby shop guy that I had one of these Walthers engines and he recommended it (long before I knew ANYTHING about dcc, decoders, or any of it). I must like to plan ahead.
The helpful link was here in case anyone needs similar guidance in the future: http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?143320-Decoder-for-H0-Walthers-RS-2
Anyway. Now on to the next one.
hey Randy,
just thought I would update this thread--MB Klein finally had the Bowser 1220 chassis in stock, ordered it last week and it arrived today. WOW. absolutely fantastic. Love the sound, love the slow crawl at speed step 1. What a great recommendation. Thanks!!
Only issue now is that the lights are so bright--and the shell and paint job are so old--that the lights shine through the shell. I'm assuming a shot or two of black paint to cover each hood inside the shell should do the trick? Anyway. I think this locomotive is my new favorite engine.
Wow, that's bright. Black paint on the inside of the shell will help. So will putting black paint on all of the LED except the part closest to the lens. You can also add some extra resistence to dim the LEDs somewhat. You might be able to go as high as 4.7K and still have them light plenty bright enough.