Pardon my somewhat long story but there may be insights some have that would be of advantage before I proceed on my next project.
I have two of these DCC ready (8-pin), one an RS-2 and one a RSC-2 (three axle trucks). I acquired the RS-2 new in box and added a TCS motor decoder. I acquired the RSC-2 very near unused, with a NCE motor controller. Both run great, individually and consisted.
I earlier assumed that adding sound was very difficult given limited space. But I came across a Tsunami page that showed a simple board replacement, meaning only adding a speaker(s) was the issue, and was inspired by reading herein about the small but nice performing iPhone5 / sugarcube type speakers.
The twist is I just added a LokSound Select and speakers to a LifeLike E-6 and was thrilled with the result, and have a bias against the Tsunami diesel basis my Genesis GP-9. So I'm intent on adding a LokSound. I saw there is a micro size, but limited to 0.75 motor amps. At the advice of the Litchfield Station folks, I tested the stall current today (with my hardly used RRampMeter) and found it at 1.0+ amps. So I think I'll go with the full size 1.0 amp rated Select Aux6. (Not sure the Select Direct fits as a proper light board replacement on these.) I've done lots of measuring and am pretty sure I can make it fit. The details are where to put the Select (the 6mm max thickness is the toughest part) vs the speakers. I ordered a handfull of 11x15 and 13x18mm speakers today from DigiKey and hope to fit two of the larger ones (42% more area) in without excessive weight trimming. I'm not clear on which side of the speaker faces where. And plan to direct wire to the truck tabs and bypass the copper strips. Plus will need to modify the lighting, planning to cut the lightpipes to reuse the lenses and add new LEDs behind. Not sure whether to use the 5mm warm white Christmas tree LEDs or procure some of more "perfect' color.
This will be my toughest project yet. If anyone has specific hints they are most welcome.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
In all honesty, the Loksound Micro will work just fine. I've installed them in numerous HO engines, including brass with no problems.
99.999% of the time, your engine will never "stall" while set to full throttle. It will slip long before it stalls. The only circumstance I can think that would cause it to stall would be something getting in the gears causing them to bind up. Not very likely, but can't say impossible.
An excessively heavy engine "might" stall before it slips, but your engines never will.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Paul,
Your Kato engine drew 1+ amps at 'stall'? My Kato RSC-2's draw under 1/2 amp at full stall. And my P1K RSC-s draw even less. I would run your test again, and get rid of the 'bind' if it is really drawing that much. Usually the big, heavy P2K E's are the current hogs. You might want to run the current test on that one as well. In any event, the larger ESU decoder is less heat sensitive(at least form the folks I have spoken to who installed some). And the sugar cube speaker are very nice. Update us on the install - I want to add 'sound' to my Alco's as well....
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Jim, for clarity on the stall test. I used my MRC 1300, put the RRampMeter in between and hooked the test leads to the motor clips on my desk blotter. The loco was just frame, trucks and motor...shell, lights and light board stripped off. As the wheels spun, I cranked up the MRC DC output to full, and then pushed down on thte frame until the wheels stopped on the paper blotter...they were stalled 100%, by me. The amps reading was well below when spinning at full speed, of course, but when stalled it varied from 1.0 - 1.1. amps. I didn't note the voltage. The RRampMeter instructions required the input on the left side and the output (to the loco) on the right, which I did. (Apparently the meter itself uses some current but when used that way show the output (net) on the reading.
I'll try my Home Depot digital meter tomorrow again but not sure it will function in the 1A range...it has 0.2 and 10A ranges and not sure it registers on the 10A range. I'll try it again as a crosscheck.
I can also try the RSC-2 for comparison.
Yes, over 1 amp does seem very excessive for a Kato. If it's that high while holding the motor shaft, it may be a shorted winding in the motor. While kato is quality stuff, sometimes a bad one slips through - I had one that would get stuck - after you stopped it, it would not run again unless you spun the motor a little. Having nothing to lose, I took it apart and opened up the motor - on one of the commutator slices was a big pile of what looked like the glue they used to hold the segments in place. After carefully scraping this off, it ran fine. Since the glue is an insulator - when it stopped with a brush on that segment, there was no power. ANd it almost always stopped at that spot because it was raised and caused more friction with the brush
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Jim, the ESU Micro has NO heat issues ... it's the Tsunami Micro that has the heat issues.
Paul, you know how hard you pressed down on the chassis to make the wheels stop turning - under what circumstances would that happen when running the engine on your layout ? .... none.
Paul:
I installed sound in a Kato RS-2 a little while ago and there is plenty of room for the Loksound Select decoder over top of the motor. No need to spend the extra on the mini. (*see section on lighting below).
For speakers I used two small ovals that I happened to already have. I had to cut a substantial portion of the body weights off to make room for the speakers. I just did an older Atlas RS-3 with the same decoder, but this time I installed two iPhone5 speakers in the roof of the cab. That was much easier to do without having to carve into the weights.
In both cases I used 0603 warm white SMD LEDs glued directly to the back of the headlight lenses. The Kato had single large headlights so I used one LED for each end. The Atlas had two smaller headlights on each end so I used two LEDs on each end so they would line up with the lenses. *Removing the light pipes entirely is what makes the space available for the decoder.
If you use 5mm LEDs you might have to remove some of the weights or grind down the LEDs a bit.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
On my Home Depot digital meter I have to install one lead in a different socket on the face of the meter or it gives way high amperage readings. If your's is the same don't forget that small step, like I have on more than one occasion!
hon30critter*Removing the light pipes entirely is what makes the space available for the decoder.
Dave, regarding the light pipes, I presume you're noting that removing the factory board with it's extending LEDs makes room for the decoder. I will put LEDS closer to the lens and reduce the plastic light pipes in the weights and trim the weights as needed for room for the speakers.
And what setup do you suggest to get the single 0603 warm white SMDs? I see strips, bare (can one solder to these things?) and single pre-wired. Example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100PCS-0603-SMD-SMT-Warm-White-Light-ultra-bright-LED-Diodes-High-quality-/201212324534?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed9306ab6
On truck pickup, did you tie to the copper strip on the floor or wire directly to the trucks to avoid depending on the truck tabs contacting the strip from below?
Other Dave, indeed my Ideal meter has an extra socket for 10A, never noticed it. I just tried it out on the same loco and got 0.96A at full DC throttle, stalled.
Thanks, fellas!
Dave, could you post where you picked up the iPhone5 speakers, part number, I keep hearing about using them but no one supplies a source, and a search turns up so many options it is hard to pin down what might work. Thank you.
bandmjm, basis other threads I've read, I ordered some from these spots that people recommended:
At Streamlined Backshops you pay more but get an enclosure with it. There is some good reading there also:
http://store.sbs4dcc.com/sugarcubespeakers.aspx
At DigiKey (which people referenced) I narrowed it down to three (two sizes). As far as I can tell the two of the same size are similar but one is waterproof. I also noticed a spec difference on one page about thickness that may or not be the case if you check the spec sheets. I ordered 5 of each size, not the waterproof larger one.
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/compare/en?returnUrl=%2Fproduct-search%2Fen%3Fpv60%3D106%26FV%3Dfff4000b%252Cfff80046%252Cfffc01a7%26k%3Dspeaker%26mnonly%3D0%26newproducts%3D0%26ColumnSort%3D0%26page%3D1%26quantity%3D0%26ptm%3D0%26fid%3D0%26pageSize%3D25&part=423-1171-ND&part=423-1200-ND&part=423-1203-ND
I don't know whether there is a lot of performance difference between diffferent brands. I'd sure like to get the "best" ones if I knew as the effort outweighs small cost differences. There are some on EBay but I don't know what's what there. There certainly is a wide range of quality in stereo speakers. And I don't quite understand how to mount them yet (which side to face out of an enclosure). There is a comment on the SBS site that the sound comes out the "magnet side" that confuses me. I haven't received any yet but anxiously await them. BTW Tony's Trains will be offering these soon as they have a local guy who will assemble them into enclosures he will be making for them.
Paul, thanks for the reply, very helpful, I will check with Tony's as I have good dealings with them in the past, thanks again, jim
bandmjim:
I get my iPhone5 style speakers from Digi-Key in the US, as does Paul. They don't sell enclosures but those are easy to make from .040" or .060: styrene. This is the speaker I use:
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=12&y=11&lang=en&site=us&keywords=423-1203-ND
Great electronic parts source! I get delivery to the door in Canada in two days for $8.00.
I solder the connections to the 0603 LEDs myself. Holding them in place is tricky but I use a pair of bent tip spring loaded (closed) tweezers:
There is an LED in the tweezers although you can hardly see it. Using an Optivisor is a must. I usually use decoder wire. Decoder wire is available from TCS (multi strand) http://tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Products/Supplies/Wire/Wire.htm and Ngineering (single strand) http://www.ngineering.com/accessories.htm among others. I strongly recommend tinning the wire and the LED first. I put a tiny bit of flux on the pad and the wire both before and after tinning. Overkill perhaps, but anything to make the joint go quickly.
To determine polarity there is a mark on the back of the LEDs which shows the positive side. It is either a 'T' or a triangle. The top of the 'T' or the base of the triangle points to the positive side. Alternately, just use whatever wires and test for polarity after. I use paint pens to mark polarity on the wires. The paint won't rub off.
Be prepared to waste a few LEDs. They won't tolerate much heat so you want to get the wire and the pad lined up and then just touch the iron to the joint and remove it immediately. If the wire moves, no harm done. Just try it again. it will be hard at first. With a little practise you will catch on. Then, if you want a challenge, try doing some 0402s!
If you can afford to buy prewired LEDs then go for it. I am an LED nutcase so I have and will continue to use a lot of them.
I'm sorry, I didn't get the part about truck power pickup. Are you referring to my recent caboose project? If so, I used wheel wiper pickups from Streamlined Backshop:
http://sbs4dcc.com/hoscalewheelwipers.html
Glad to have helped with the amp meter setup, but .96 amps still sounds a bit high to me. Some DC power packs can put out as much as 17 volts. I would measure your DCC system track voltage and set the DC power pack to the same output instead of using it wide open.
Paul and bandmjim:
Re iPhone speaker mounting, I glue the enclosure side (not the frame side) directly to the shell with 'Gloozit' which is a clear gel style adhesive. It sets up fairly hard. The common practise with cone style speakers is to glue or mount the speaker frame to something hard like the locomotive frame, so the sugar cube speakers are a little different in that regard. I'm not sure if they can be mounted like the cone style speakers. I do know that I am getting great sound.
If you haven't already seen this information, I suggest doing a bit of reading:
http://sbs4dcc.com/sugarcubespeakers.html
http://sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/sugarcubespeakernotes.html
http://sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/wiringmultispeakers.html