Hi all,
First post!
I just got back into model trains after a breif hiatus. I have a small shelf layout I'm working on, 2x8, and would like to upgrade to dcc.
I have an Athearn RTR csx sd 38-2. It's dcc ready, with an 8 pin connector.
Here's the features I'd like to have: Sound, ditch lights, bells and horn.
I'd like to keep cost down too :)
I like ESU Loksound decoders, they offer the Loksound Select with 8 pin plug, but you will need to wire the ditch lights separately if you want them controlled independently of the headlights.
Speakers also separately installed.
Sound set for this one would be 73408. It's the EMD 16-645E3 set. This shoud be closest one...
Others may recommend something else, this would just be my preferred choice...
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
You are not going to keep cost down with LokSound. they are great but not cheap. i use them.
Go with a digitrax for cheap but you get what you pay for. I don't use them.
rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
LokSound is far cheaper than Tsunami if you know where to shop -- usually $85 or less for the LokSound Select, and it comes with a speaker.
My take (I'm still on a learning curve) follows. I have Tsunamis in my recent Genesis big steamers and like them, including that they have dual speakers in the tender. I have a Tsunami with sound in a Bachmann 2-6-0 that I'd call ok. I added Tsunamis to two Bachmann 2-8-0s adding HiBass speakers and am ok with them. I have a factory Tsunami in my Genesis GP-9 and the sound is pretty lousy. Another thing about Tsunamis is the lack of easy speed adjustments that they lack (CV5&6, I think) but not a big problem if using Decoder Pro to adjust speed curve.
With that as background, I've read here that most seem to favor LokSound for both motor behavior and sound, complicated by the new TSU WOWSound steam also being excellent (diesel about to hatch). Well, I happened to acquire a 2004 or so NIB LifeLike Proto 2000 E6 DC with 8-pin plug, analogous to your situation, and put a LokSound in yesterday with 2 HiBass speakers. Let me tell you, it's great!! If it's a 9 on a 10 scale, the Genesis GP-9 Tsunami is a 3 at best (granted it does not have room for much but a small oval speaker). A key point is I was surprised to learn that the diesel Tsunami is inferior in sound to the steam, important to you. I have a LokSound to put in next in the Genesis GP9 and will try dual iPhone type speakers, hoping them (different type speakers) to be superior to the small oval paper cone ones.
So, I'd say, if you want top results (motor and sound) go with the LokSound or await the TCS WOWSound diesel, which may be very good also. I can't comment on QSi current models. I'd not use a diesel Tsunami (and Tsunamis cost about what a LokSOund does). If wanting to restrain cost, learn more about Digitrax and NCE (unsure if NCE has sound, people here will comment). There's another thread on MRC, whose early models had big problems, so why bother?
And consider what speakers you can use...the sound file itself, the amp capability in the decoder, and the speaker all matter. In my E6, there was an 8-pin plug option but I removed the original circuit board and had to hard wire 10-12 connecetions but made lots of room, which allowed putting in 2 speakers with enclosures, so consider that also. Suggest if you discuss this with a distributor with multi-brand offerings you can better sort throught your options (I like Tony's Trains). It's a fair amount of work to put the stuff in, so plan to get the best results for your $$ and effort. It's worth it.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Hi VA-CSXfan:
Welcome to the forum!!
I'll put my in for Loksound Select too. It will do what you want (and more). Sound quality and motor control are excellent. It comes with an 8 pin connector but the ditch lights are run from wires separate from the 8 pin plug. You can set them up to operate in a couple of different prototypical ways like having them flash alternately when the horn is sounded for example.
There are cheaper decoders available but if you were to read through the past threads on the subject you would soon realize that the majority of forum members favour Loksound. That includes the guys who install decoders professionally.
Tony's Train Exchange lists them for $81.99 including a speaker from Loksound. Personally I use the so called 'sugar cube' speakers, also referred to as iPhone 5 speakers. They are pretty impressive for their small size.
http://tonysdcc.com/products/esu_loksound_select.htm
Scroll down to the AUX6 listing. The proper sound file has already been identified in a previous post by rickstrains4824.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
richg1998 Go with a digitrax for cheap but you get what you pay for. I don't use them. rich
This statement could lead VA-CSXfan to think Digitrax equipment is cheap and low quality, which is certainly not the case! While I can't substantiate the quality of Digitrax sound decoder fidelity to the real sound, I can state categorically the Digitrax non-sound decoders are as high quality as most all of us need and their lower price makes them very-very attractive.
The problem with these types of threads, ie: Which is best?-- Help me choose,-- What do you use?—are places for people to “Name Drop” what they have used and because they use it, naturally it is the best!
I will agree that high quality sound decoders are available and will cost you more. I won’t agree that Digitrax stuff is no good, even though richg1998 won't use it!
The one thing you will learn here, is that there are as many different opinions on things as there are people involved in this forum and all of them use the best stuff there ever was, even though they all use different stuff!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Lots of great info! I think I'm gonna go for the loksound board. I'm completely new to dcc, so any opinions are welcome!
I just won an auction for a nce power cab, so I may buy an inexpensive decoder to start with and upgrade later.
NP2626 This statement could lead VA-CSXfan to think Digitrax equipment is cheap and low quality, which is certainly not the case! While I can't substantiate the quality of Digitrax sound decoder fidelity to the real sound, I can state categorically the Digitrax non-sound decoders are as high quality
This statement could lead VA-CSXfan to think Digitrax equipment is cheap and low quality, which is certainly not the case! While I can't substantiate the quality of Digitrax sound decoder fidelity to the real sound, I can state categorically the Digitrax non-sound decoders are as high quality
I haven't read anything in this topic that would leave me to conclude that Digitrax makes poor quality sound decoders. Rather that "you get what you pay for". In addition, I read a lot of forum feedback on sound decoders and I've noticed that all the positive comments are about Loksound and Tusnami - and it's strangely quiet about Digitrax sound. I haven't heard anything really bad about Digitrax sound, just not much of anything at all to get excited about. Once again, probably a matter of "you get what you pay for".
I own a Digitrax Radio Chief systems and am aware that Digitrax generally makes good quality stuff, but when it comes to decoders, there seems to be a lot more choices there where manufacturers can distinguish themselves - especially in the sound department. While overall quality may be "good", has Digitrax distinguished themselves to attract sound afficianado's?
For modelers who are not particular about sound, Digitrax sound may be adequite - perhaps in the category of the QSI sound? Dunno.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
ricktrains4824 I like ESU Loksound decoders, they offer the Loksound Select with 8 pin plug, but you will need to wire the ditch lights separately if you want them controlled independently of the headlights. Speakers also separately installed. Sound set for this one would be 73408. It's the EMD 16-645E3 set. This shoud be closest one... Others may recommend something else, this would just be my preferred choice...
73426 would be closer. The SD38s have blower engines - 16-645E. A 16-646E3 is a turbo.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Do some research at the Digitrax site.
http://www.digitrax.com/products/engine-matrix/decoder/
Rich
riogrande5761 I haven't read anything in this topic that would leave me to conclude that Digitrax makes poor quality sound decoders. Rather that "you get what you pay for".
I haven't read anything in this topic that would leave me to conclude that Digitrax makes poor quality sound decoders. Rather that "you get what you pay for".
The last I new, Digitrax had a decoder for about $50.00. Rivet counters did not like it compared to Tsunami and LokSound. that is what i meant with, you get what you pay for.
TCS is the latest company to be coming out with excellent sound decoders. they are called, WOW series.
Sound decoders are a very subjective subject.
Want a challenge, do a Google search for best sound decoder. lol
I don't like being led by the hand so I Google a lot of stuff.
Takes time. much easier than going to a library for back issues of MRR magazine like before the Internet.
NP2626 Possibly the statement: “You get what you pay for” means something different in the region you live in. Here it means the item will be of lower quality as that’s how it can be cheaper.
Sheesh!!
My only point was I wanted the O.P. to understand that I think Digitrax makes excellent equipment!
The original Digitrax sound decoders were only 8 bit sound, with a very noticeable lack in quality no matter how good the recording was. ANd they could only play 3 sounds at once, so if you had the prime mover going, and the bell, you could either sound the horn or turn on the dynamics but not both, one sound would have to stop to play the fourth.
The new ones, and don;t boither with any other than the ones with the X in the name, are 16 bit sounds, like other brands, and can play more simultaneous sounds. The problem still is that they ship with a generic "GP-38" sound scheme that is stright from the older decoders - so it still sounds pretty poor. You need a PR3 to load new sounds, but thee is a fellow, John McMaster, who has been remastering recordings for the 16 bit decoders and taking advantage of the greater memory capacity and more voices to make improved projects that only work in the new decoders. Upside - they are COMPLETELY programmable, so some of those new projects have features not in any other sound decoder, downside, this programming is EXTREMELY complex - effectively direct machine code programming, not designing 'scripts' like Loksound. However, if there is a project for the model or type of loco you have, for $50 they aren't bad. Better than MRC, and half the price of most of the others.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Thanks Randy!
I believe this is the first time I've seen any information on Digitrax Sound. This is likely because up until recently, I lacked much interest in sound.
It sounds like Randy's comments should provide enough information about Digitrax sound for the original poster to decide if they are ok for him for the price. It seems as luck would have it, the default engine sounds are close to the engine he has so maybe that will be ok then. Possibly even MRC might be ok with their new generation decoders assuming they've gotten past all those past issues.
Yes, the defaulkt sound loaded in the decoder is sort of a GP-38, which fits the loco, but it is a very poor quality version. John McMaster has a much better version available in the Sound Depot. Remember, all sounds are free, you just buy the decoder. If you don't want to buy a PR3 (which combined with JMRI makes a very nice standalone programming system that can program CVs on any brand decoder), most dealers will install the sound file of your choice before shipping the decoder.
I'm just getting back into DCC after a hiatus of no place for a layout. I have the ancient PR1 set up which may still work via an old laptop I have, but the PR3 may be worth considering by me for use with my Digitrax Radio Chief system (with newly purchased DT402D throttle, to suppliment the old outdated DT100R - still need to by the duplex radio receiver).
Can you explain a bit the differences between the PR1 and PR3 programming systems?
Cheers, Jim
The PR1 is just a Loconet interface (and a poor one at that), that needs the computer to be able to handle a non-standard baud rate. Most computers these days don't have actual serial ports, and even those that do are often just internally a USB to serial converter. And USB to serial converters tend to not support any non-standard rates. The PR1 is not buffered, which means it cna easily drop packets - saw this at a Digitrax display at the National Train Show a few years ago, when the PR1 dropped the detection packet that signaled the loco was at the end of the track and needed to switch directions. Instead it ran into the bumper and just kept spinning its wheels until the display was reset.
The PR2 is a standalone programmer mostly meant to work witht he Soundloader software to load sounds into Digitrax decoders. Also gone by the wayside.
The PR3 is two devices in one, plus it connects to your computer via USB. In one mode, it is a Loconet interface like the PR1, however it is buffered like the Locobuffer and won;t drop packets just because the computer was briefly tied up. In this mode, you can use JMRI throttles, or smartphone throttles via WiThrottle, or program on the main or using the DCS100 program track. The other mode of the PR3 is a standalone programmer mode, where the PR3 connects to a piece of track and you use that the program on, using JMRI or Soundloader - in this mode it also can load sounds into Digitrax sound decoders. The other nice thing is that even with the default 14V PS14 power supply is now comes with (PR3 Xtra), I can read and write ANY decoder - including ones that often need program track boosters. Others have found that it's not 100% reliable with the 14V power supply, but by using a 17-18 volt laptop power supply it does work perfectly.
I use my exclusively as a standlone programmer - I have a Locobuffer for the Loconet inteface connection. I have a piece of shelving with some track, mostly rerailers, on it, with Kadee couple guages and markings for car weights. The PR3 is hooked to this, and since I use Loksound for all my sound decoders, I also have a Lokprogrammer connected.
So - if you plan on using Digitrax sound decoders, or want a standalone program system that can operate away from the layout, the PR3 is a good choice. If you just want a better Loconet interface than the ancient PR1, then the Locobuffer USB from RR-CirKits is probably the better device.
I picked up a DT100 cheap on eBay a while ago - I don;t care about all the extra sounds in sound decoders, my main concern is ringing the bell and blowing the horn, which a DT100 cn do quite nicely - plus it has real buttons. I had an idea of buying some actual buttons and rebuilding a DT400 with real buttons instead of the chicklets. My only issue with a DT100 is that I keepw anting to click the knob to reverse, like the DT402. One of these days I'm going to bust it pushing down on the knob. Cool thing about Digitrax is all that old stuff is still perfectly usable 0 I wouldn't want to try and program with a DT100, not with a DT402 available. But for simple train running, it's great - better than a UT4, I MUCH prefer encoders knobs instead of potentiometers, which is why I never used my Zephyr console after I got a DT400.
Thanks for the detailed explanation Randy. Great info. I'm not loaded and have to pace my expendatures now more than in the past few years so carefully examine the cost/benefit.
Even though my Chief system came with the DT100 (later coverted to R), I've been aware that it's not user friendly to program with so finally spring for the DT402D last year. I'm surprised so many people get rid of the DT100 when it seems fine as a throttle for running trains. I like the encoder knobs too.
Good stuff, thanks Randy
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Not too many people got rod of DT100's, I think. That's the downside of the eternal compatibility of Digitrax stuff - there is really no "surplus" unless you are totally quitting the hobby and getting rid of it all. It took much patience and careful bidding before I got a DT100 'cheap' - most were going for over $60!