This one is confounding me quite a bit!
For some time now I have noticed the "power" LED on my DB200 booster is faintly glowing green. I finally decided to try to figure out where this stray voltage is coming from and it is becoming increasingly difficult to pinpoint the source of the voltage that is keeping the LED alive.
Even if the layout sits unused for weeks, that LED is still glowing. So I unplugged the power supply transformer from the 115 VAC. Still glows. Then I unplugged the Loconet cable... still no change. NOW I pull the remaining 7 pin power plug and the LED finally, s l o w l y fades out. Obviously there's a capacitor holding a little current but it eventually drains after about 15 seconds.
I plug the 7 pin back in and the LED glows. With my VOM set at 2 VAC I read the terminals and I get 1.025 volts at the Rail A-B screws. Tracing back, I read the inputs and outputs of the PSX 4 breaker and I get anywhere from .75 V to .45 V coming IN from the track outputs!!??
THEN I place a lead weight across the rails to short rail A-B (this is with the Power OFF and the DB200 set to Sleep) and the LED is STILL glowing! Not bright mind you but still visible in a lighted room.
An Idea hits me: Inductance? My track buss parallels an AC 115V cord for about 10 feet going to an outlet on the fascia. I kill that but still, the LED lives...
SO, tonight I unplug the UR92 that is closest to the command station and FINALLY the LED fades to black!
Ah-Ha the wall wart that powers the UR92 must be supplying voltage that is feeding back to the DB200. I do have the "Track Status" terminals connected to the rails so I figure this is the source.
I unscrew a wire OFF thetrack status terminal on back of the UR92 and the danged LED is still glowing!
Where in Hooterville is this stray voltage coming from? Has anyone ever heard of a similar occurrence? I have the DCS 200 and DB 200 grounded to each-other (but not to the household ground as LION often suggests)
Everything operates normally. When I power-up the boosters the "power on" led glows much brighter but still, if I switch to sleep then kill the power supply I still have that glowing LED!
I'm Stumped... any ideas?
Ed
First of all - I can't help with your problem - other than the fact is
I NEVER leave the power on to my layout in any of the small Power Supplies or the main transformer let alone put the Command Station in SLEEP Mode!
Obviously YOU have never had one of the small Wall Wart supplies burn up!
Something you don't want to see or have happen - lucky I was standing there then it went - or I wouldn't have had a house anymore.
Same with the Command Station - just asking for a potential problem if the electronics component blows.
Saw one of those go at an OPs Session i was attending - the flames were pretty neat - until we realized they weren't going out!
Things got ripped out from under the Layout pretty fast!
So ended the OPs session for that day!
Having seen it twice in my lifetime - I don't want to take a chance in NOT seeing it happen and come home to smoldering ruins!
YES - the TV and the DVD and the Computer and the Battery powered Sweepers and and and and - but at least they can't blame it on my TOYS!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
i'm curious to see a diagram.
if it's standard, maybe something you can find from google images
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
If the single jack on the front of the UR02 has the same diode isolation that the two jacks on a UP5 have, it's possible one of the diodes has failed closed and is allowing leakage from the power back to the Railsync lines.
I'm with Bob, if no one is in the train room, then EVERYTHING is off - DCC system, lights, tools, etc. In my bedroom layout,w ith everythign in one outlet, it was pretty easy to manage, I just hooked it all up through an X10 appliance module and kept the control by the door. Since I have to do a bunch of wiring in my basement anyway, I am planning to put a switch at the top of the stairs with a pilot that kills everything in the basement except the general overhead lights (not the layout lights, those get cut off). Switch 2 is the normal light switch, so when someone needs to go to the basement, the lights can be turned on without powering up the layout.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Hi, Bob
I do use a kill switch left over from my DC days when I had several "panic stop" switches located around the layout. These kill all the primary power to the layout. In fact I seldom switch the boosters to sleep (even though Digitrax suggests to) I just kill the 115V to all the power supplies for switch machines, lights, signals and the DCC boosters.
I DO keep the UR91 and 92s alive for the battery maintaining feature. I have the UP5s daisy-chained to use the battery "saver" feature. I use six throttles and I hate to have to replace EVERY battery before an operating session.
When I think of all the wall warts and "sleeping" power supplies around my house, well. I can't even count them all. Just the basement alone I have three computers, surveillance camera power supplies, untold battery chargers... even a door bell transformer (screwed to a dry wooden joist!!) Risky? I agree with you that at least "my toys" wouldn't be the cause of the fire.
Randy: The UR92 is brand new. I just converted to duplex so I replaced the UR91 (the LED glowed on both setups) I still have another UR91 on the other side of the layout for simplex use and they both seem to play nice together on the Loconet. LED glows even with the Loconet unplugged.
Greg: Everything is wired exactly as shown in the Digitrax diagrams depicted in their literature... I still need to do more exploring!
One thing I have noticed too is that when I turn off track power using the throttle the DB200 gives five quick beeps then goes immediately to a rapid clicking and this will continue indefinitely until I kill the 115 VAC power to the transformer.
Again, all this doesn't seem to affect operations, I'm just curious about these seemingly unusual conditions. I'll report back as I have time to explore this further...
Thanks to all, Ed
Wait - the LED on the DCS glows as long as the UR92 has power, even with the loconet disconnected? And just by disconnecting power to the UR92, it goes out? That doesn't even make sense. When there's no electrical connection between the powered accessory device and the command station, no way can that accessory be the source of power making it light up. Yeah it's wireless but it doesn't wirelessly beam power back.
What about if all loconet cables are unplugged fromt he DCS, does it still glow then?
Do you have any UP5's, that might be also powered? A failed diode in there, if the track power is connected, could also possibly put power to the rails. Or other UPs - the UP3 did not have a resistor on it to protect the diodes like the UP5 has, so even more likely to get a failed diode.
I have 6 throttles the guys use when they come over for an OPs Session.
They are trained to install a battery and pull the battery when done for the evening. So I don't use the Keep alive thing!
I put a laminated graphic in the battery case to show direction of battery install and it has a paper lip up the back so they can't hurt anything if someone is Less Than Smart and trys to put the battery in totally backwards!
On my Duplex throttles - I have installed switches to turn off the batteries
With the DT4XX serise throttles reporting battery voltage when I turn them on - I can easily see if I need to replace the batteries
I also use the POWER-X 10v batteries in the Duplex Throttles so I don't usually have to replace the battery for 3 OPs Sessions.
Most of the other 20 guys have purchased their own throttles to use at my OPs Sessions (those one that don't have Digitrax) and the others just bring their own throttles.
With 99% of them using Simplex - I run both systems together and have done so for the past 5 years with no problems with interferience.
Moving the Duplex UR92 around a lot to get the best reception as I have full height backdrops that really cuts down the reception of the Duplex vs the Simplex.
So I have the best of both worlds in the Radio.
I have never had a wall wart fail in any way but off. I did however have to yank the power cable out of the back of a desk top computer when the power supply went up in smoke. No flames, but a LOT of smoke.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Why does Digitrax recommend putting the command station/booster into sleep mode before shutting off power (and before turning it on?) I couldn't find any clarification in the manual. Is it harmful in any way to turn on power (already in the on position on the command station) via a power bar? I'd like to know if it's essential for some reason. Thanks.
Jim
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
Capt. Grimek Why does Digitrax recommend putting the command station/booster into sleep mode before shutting off power (and before turning it on?) I couldn't find any clarification in the manual. Is it harmful in any way to turn on power (already in the on position on the command station) via a power bar? I'd like to know if it's essential for some reason. Thanks. Jim
I read that way back in 1999 when we first got the Digitrax system.
I was on the Digitraz yahoo forum (called something else back then) and we had all come to the consensis that just using a switch to turn on the whole system at one time would work and NOT cause problems with the equipment!
BUT!
There was a possibility that the Decoders/Engines COULD run away
IF!
THe loconet did NOT stablize (upon startup) quickly enough and the decoders could jump to DC mode and run away!
This is why is has been suggested that ALL decoders have CV29 set for DC OFF!
I have been flipping the main power off for the past 14 years and NEVER had a problem same as turning on the system.
I now have 4 booster besides the Command Station.
Although I DO NOT have turnout decoders NOR do I have any DCC SIGNAL controllers either - so there may be a better way of turn on and shutting down the system using a lot of those units!
rrinker When there's no electrical connection between the powered accessory device and the command station,
Again, this is what is making this so confusing!
I DO have the "track status" terminals connected to the rails and it is on the rail A-B terminals at the DB200 that I read the 1.02 volts.
Unfortunately, I'm working quite a few 12 hour graveyard shifts this week so I don't have the time to do further exploration on the layout.
Thanks for following along, Ed
Thanks very much Bob. No one in my area seemed to know. Ed, sorry to piggyback onto your thread, but seeing as this came up....
Capt. Grimek Thanks very much Bob. No one in my area seemed to know. Ed, sorry to piggyback onto your thread, but seeing as this came up.... Jim
No worries, Jim
I have been leaving the toggle switches on my command station and booster in the "run" position for years. I turn off track power with the DT402 throttle then I kill the 115 power supplys to the boosters.
I have not experienced any ill effects that I'm aware of. Is it possible to have voltage spikes or odd behavior on the Loconet? I'm sure Digitrax is suggesting the least volatile method of shutdown. The command station IS a computer and I sure wouldn't shut down a PC by pulling the plug every time... maybe I should rethink my procedures?
Take care, Ed
As for turning it all on and off at the same time - I had my Zephyr configured as the command station, its track output ran my Singlet stationary decoders. Connected via Loconet (and a ground wire) to my DB150 jumpered as booster. This fed a PM42 which fed the actual rails. The Zephyr power supply, DB150 power supply, and PM42 power supply were all on the same power strip, all turned on and off at the same time. I never had any issues of running away, but I also as a matter of routine turn off analog in my decoders when I program them - the only place I ever run my stuff is at home or at the club, and there's DCC in both places.
What does happen with this setup is sometimes you get beeps out of the booster because the Loconet hasn;t stabilized yet, and the PM42 will click a few times on shutdown, mainly because it is powered by a larger tham PS14 power supply so it takes longer for the filter cap to drain and the PM42 stays active for a few seconds after power is killed. Only time I ever messed with the run/sleep/ops switch was when the DB150 was acting up so I did an OpSw 39 reset on it. That happened shortly after I got it all hooked up, after that, I used it for a couple of years with no further issues, until I took the layout down to move.