So, I found a Proto 2K BL2 @ my LHS on consignment. Price $50, so I said why not. It also said on the package "Needs Gears", which the LHS had. Great. So I brought the thing home and go to run it on DC, I get a hum, the lights light up, but no movement at all...okay it needs gears. I pop the cover off the locomotive (easily removed by light prying of the sides of locomotive). Move the flywheel by hand. It moves, both directions. Next I put it on the track and apply power, lights light up, motor turns very slowly. For stripped gears I would have expected the motor to turn freely at full power, but it slowly turns not moving the locomotive in either direction. Any ideas as to what is wrong? Is this just a case of needs new gears, or is this possible wiring or motor issue? Unfortuneately as a mechanic, motor and operation is not my strong suit, and I dont thing a mallet or wrench will fix this problem. This is my first attempt at tinkering, and figured I might as well give it a shot. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Andrew
It's not a case of the gears being "stripped", but rather cracked or split. This will usually give a clunking sound as the engine is run.
The first step would be to remove the top gear cover from both trucks and remove the worm gear and drive shaft. Now retest the motor - it "should" be running free and easy.
Next, remove the bottom cover plate from the trucks and remove the wheel-sets. Check inside the case for old, dried up grease. If there is, you should probably tear the frames right down and clean out the old gunk, it will just cause things to turn harder.
Twist the wheels off the old gears and press the axles onto the new gears. You will also need an NMRA Gauge to make sure the wheels are spaced properly. If you don't have one, you can be close enough by gauging them with a good wheel-set. Don't forget the bronze bushings on each axle !
Re-assemble the alxes into the case and snap on the bottom cover. The truck should roll freely across your bench at this point. With free rolling trucks, and verification the motor works as expected, install the trucks back in the chassis, install the worm gear / drive shaft, snap on the gear cover and you should be back in business.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
It could well be exactly what Mark is suggesting.
But before even replacing the gears in the truck assembly, why not remove them altogether and see how freely the motor spins to determine if the gears are the problem with the motor spinning slowly.
Rich
Alton Junction
I think I'll go with the step by step approach, disconnect motor from rest of drive train, test motor. If all is well there, then I will proceed to truck disassembly.
BMMECNYC I think I'll go with the step by step approach, disconnect motor from rest of drive train, test motor. If all is well there, then I will proceed to truck disassembly.
When you mentioned that the box was marked "Needs Gears" and you bought a package of new gears, were you referring to the truck gears? What was the brand and item number of the new gears?
If you plan to replace the gears anyhow, you might just as well remove them and see if that, indeed, frees up the motor.
I was refering to the axle mounted drive gears. Not sure how many there are total in the locomotvive. The ones he sold me were the ATH 60024 SD40-2/T-2 gears. So I have two spares, that will hopefully fit the NMRA convention locomotive I ordered (NS 3215), should it ever need gear replacement.
Update: I found that the easiest way to test the motor was to remove the wheelsets from the trucks (press fit cover similar in design to athearn bluebox coulper box covers. Motor runs just fine with red/black leads aligator clipped to appropriate colored wire connection points on locomotive, motor/drive train little bit noisy, little on noisy side, but by far not the noisiest HO scale (or should I say gauge, because I visited the Proto 87sig website?) locomotive Ive ever seen.
Problem solved, and a question! What is the best lubricant to use on gears. For steamloco side rods and bearings I have been using Ultra-lite oil (very sparingly as I absolutely abhor changing traction tires). Will graphite lubricant work? Is that a good choice?
Total amount spent on project: $56.00 +tax, not bad for a Proto 2K locomotive. I now have some MU plugs, bridgeplates(think that is what they are called, the centerline metal plate that allows you to walk between locomotives), and handrails to remove and replace.
And the problem was....?
The 3 of 4 gears were split along the axle. And the one axel did not provide enough traction to move the weight of the engine.
BMMECNYC Problem solved, and a question! What is the best lubricant to use on gears. For steamloco side rods and bearings I have been using Ultra-lite oil (very sparingly as I absolutely abhor changing traction tires). Will graphite lubricant work? Is that a good choice?
I tried the Ultra-lite version of that, but im not sure if that is heavy enough. The locomotive is making a sort of squealing noise when moving forward on 12 VDC. In reverse in makes a chirping noise or intermittant squeal same frequency as the forward noise. Is this just a run in issue with the new gears not yet worn like the old ones or do I have other problems?
If you put gear lube on the new gears in the truck assemblies, they should run silent from the get go, at least mine do after the repair. It must be something in the driveline.
Does it need more than a drop or two, literally I only put 2 small drops of oil on each gear, didnt want to over do it.
BMMECNYC Does it need more than a drop or two, literally I only put 2 small drops of oil on each gear, didnt want to over do it.
Okay so after removing the new wheelsets and retesing the motor/drive train with the test leads, I discovered that the noise is coming from the area of the worm gear/univeral joint to one of the trucks (it varies in intensity wiht the pivoting of the worm gear). So I guess the question is oil or grease?
Also this motor has 2 brushes? 180 degrees appart making contact with a copper drum that is smaller than the motor windings themselves. I am assuming that these are wear parts and will require eventual replacement?
A couple of drops are sufficient, running in will spread the lube. Make sure you use a plastic compatable lubricant. I use LaBelle's oils and Teflon grease which is what should be used in the gear box not oil. You also want to put a small drop of oil on each of the motor bearings and the worm gear bearings.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
The Woodland Scenics Hob-E-Lube Gear Lube is grease, not oil.
Thank you Jay, dry worm gear bearings were the culprit. Have not lubricated the worm gears themselves. The manufacturer recommended using plastic compatible oil on the idler gears, which I did in fact do. After puting a drop of oil on the shaft on each end of the worm gear box, the noise stopped, and now I have I nice, quiet canned motor hum.
Excellent !
Congrats.
A small dab of lubrication on the bronze journals of the motor where the shaft exits never hurts either.
Now all it needs is a Decoder.