I am in the beginning stages of planning the installation of a DCC / Sound decoder in 2 different locomotives, an Atlas GP-40 and a Proto 2000 SD-60E (Shapeways Crescent cab installd). In the past, I have installed about 60 Tsunami decoders and as many non sound decoders. I am very confident with my abilities to install a decoder. I have NEVER attempted an ESU Lok Sound installation though and I am rather clueless about how ESU Lok Sound decoders work. Last month I purchased one of those new Intermountain SD40-2 locomotives with the Lok Sound factory installed and lets just say that I was IMPRESSED with the sound quality and motor control.
My questions about ESU Lok Sound decoders are...
1) I understand that unlike Tsunami decoders (that comes pre loaded with the sound files for a specific locomotive engine)...I understand that Lok Sound decoders come "Blank" and that the user must download and install the sound files for the engine that the decoder is installed in. Is this true?
2) The user must in turn purchased a Lok Programmer inorder to download and program Lok Sound decoders. Is this true?
3) If number 1 & 2 are true....then do I just simply order the same decoder and install them into the Atlas GP-40 and the Proto 2000 SD-60E and then download the appropiate sound files for each engine to the appropiate decoder?
The thing that confusses me is the having to download the sound files and load my own decoder.
Any help or explanation would be greatly appreciated.
Mike
Some DCC dealers such as Ulrich Hobby Shop and Litchfield Station will program the decoder for you if you tell them what sound file you want, and selection of the desired file is part of the ordering process on their web sites.
The LokProgrammer is a hardware interface that will allow you to purchase the decoders with no files loaded, and then make your own custom configuration. The ESU web site has hundreds of sound files available for every conceivable type of locomotive; steam, diesel, and electric for both US and European locomotives.
A LokSound Select decoder is primarily for U.S. modelers, although you can also use their V4.0 decoders. The Select series cannot have individual sounds modified, but the V4.0 decoder can.
Go to the ESU-USA web site and you can research what's available, including all the sound files.
http://www.esu.eu/en/start/
Yes, the come 'blank' with some test sounds. However, most of the well-known dealers like Litchfield, Tony's, or Ulrich will load your choice of sound files before shipping the decoder. Otherwise, #2 is correct, you need the Lokprogrammer to load sounds in them.
There is indeed just one SKU per form factor of Loksound decoder - ie, all Atlas board format Loksound Select decoders have the same part number. But as mentioned, one of the many wll known and well regarded DCC dealers will preload your choice of sounds so you don't absolutely need to purchase the Lokprogrammer.
I've decided to standardize on Loksound decoders, all my sound locos are Loksound, so I did buy a Lokprogrammer. You can sometimes find the decoders cheaper at other sources but then they don't come loaded with a sound set. Plus they are always updating and improving things when they can - several of the sound sets were reently updated as they were able to get access to some still operable first generation diesel switchers, and more are being added/updated all the time.
There is an additional choice - between the V4 and Select series. Select series, you can load a complete sound project (Lokprogrammer required) and then use a CV to select (no Lokprogrammer needed) between variations of the prime mover and horns and bells. You can change the complete sound set with the Lokprogrammer but not alter the 'script' that decides which sound plays under what conditions. The V4, you can change individual sounds around, as well as completely program the script to make the decoder do different things. Example, the default horn in the Alco 244 sounds for the V4 decoder I have was a 5 chime. In their sound library, they had an M3 3 chime, which was closest to what my prototype had. Using the Lokprogrammer, I was easily able to change the horn sound to the M3. Now they have announced a recording of the exact horn I need - an M3RT1. As soon as I can download that, I will be able to change the sound over so I have the exact prototype sounds I need. If this were a Select decoder, I'd have to wait until they rebuild the Alco 244 sound project to include the M3RT1 horn as one of the options and reload the complete sound project, but then a single CV change would make that horn the active one.
If you only buy from one of the sources that will preload the sounds for you, you need no Lokprogrammer, and the install is no different than any other sound decoder.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
One more note about LokSound: The Select series of decoders come with a 1-inch round 4 Ohm speaker and baffle. Most other brands of decoders do not include the speaker. Of course, you can use a different speaker if theirs won't fit.
The Select can use speakers from 4 to 16 Ohms impedance, so if you have room for two 8 Ohm speakers you can wire them in parallel to produce a 4 Ohm load, or in series for a 16 Ohm load.
I recently purchased two iPhone5 8 Ohm speakers as recommended in another thread on this forum, and will use them wired in parallel for my next install.
Answer 1) ESU decoders come with sometype of sound file on them which was used for testing. The sound files and settings must be loaded onto the decoders using the Loksound Programmer.
Answer 2) Yes you need the programmer to load files yourself. The programmer also makes changing the decoder settings easier although you can use JMRI for that also. Just do not do a decoder reset (CV8=8). A reset will remove the decoder sound project.
Answer 3) You have to purchase the Lok programmer to load the decoders yourself. It has been said that if you program something like 2-3 decoders then the programmer has paid for itself. Not sure how true that is but i do have one and love it. I find it worth the money i spent to purchase it. I also bought the loksound decoder tester also. I use them together. This way when i program a decoder i can go right ahead and test it after it is programmed to make sure it is good. Motor control is excellent with them. One little trick i learned with them is to write a zero to CV54. Then put the engine on the tracks and press button 1. The locomotive will run for a bit then the bell will come on. This action sets BackEMF on the engine and i can tell you from experience it works great. You can get a programmer from a hobbyshop. I used Yankee Dabbler and they are also online if needed. You can download the directions from the website www.loksound.com if you would like before you purchase so you can get a feel of what is involved. Just don't go to in depth on the directions as it can be very overwelming at first. Take it slow.
1. No. ESU decoders come pre-loaded with sound. It's just like other sound decoders, you pick which decoder you buy based on what shape - pin combination will fit best in your model, and which steam, diesel or electric sounds are on it. You can go re-program a decoder to have different sounds but they don't come "blank".
The ESU site lists all these different sound/engine types available; each is available in three different design / shapes of decoders:
http://www.esu.eu/en/products/loksound/loksound-select/ordering-information/#c2781
It think some folks might be thinking of the Digitrax SDH164D, which came with just a GP-38 and 'generic' steam sounds pre-loaded; you had to load other sounds yourself. The newer SDXH166D comes with 6 diesel and 2 steam sound sets preloaded.
Folks above have answered your main questions. You have lots of experience with decoder installs which is great. I'll offer some additional thoughts.
The Select comes in 3 forms; i.e., the Select Direct (about $88) is a board that will replace the circuit board. I used one of those in my first conversion, a Genesis GP9 where I wanted the Select sounds. Since then, I've used the Select 6Aux ($80), which is an encapsulated circuit board with 8-pin plug, plus speaker wires and another Aux output wire or two on the other end. I cut off the plug and hardwire, as removing the existing boards often helps interior space. The Select Micro ($80) is smaller, and 3/4 amp versus 1 amp others (same 2W audio amplifier). The V4.0 is about $112. Just info. If you're like me, the cost differences are not big enough to choose my path. The Select vs V4.0 is mainly about your desire to make sound changes within a (or make your own) sound file.
A bit about available sound files. The Select and V4.0 use specific files for each (e.g., the Select xyz motor file is different from the V4.0 xyz motor file). From the following ESU page on Selects sounds, you can go to a group of generic files (not specific to model loco manufacturer) or the shorter group of files specific to a manufacturer's loco (e.g., the Kato SD40-2). (The latter group of files can have CVs set up as the manufacturer preferred.) I've never used those.
http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/sounds/loksound-select/
On the availability of files for your specific locos. As you look over the Select sound files (3 web pages) you will see a variety of files that can be loaded in your Select decoder. Each description can be expanded, and the "bulletin" listed can be printed out with most of the text you see. Some files have sound samples you can play. A given file will have 1-4 prime mover selections that can be chosen. You may note that the "perfect" prime mover match for your loco may or may not be available as there are so many variations. I usually look on Wikipedia to find what motor my loco would use. I then look through the Select generic list to see if I can find that, including prime mover type, number of cylinders, turbo or blown, etc. Sometimes the perfect match is there, sometimes not. The Select manual (suggest you download that) lists a default group of horns / whistles, but some files have different ones (check that file's bulletin).
Back to the subject of your perfect prime mover match. On your GP-40, it looks like file 75410 is correct (maybe not for your horn or bell), given the EMD646E3, 16 cylinder, turbo. On the SD60E, it seems file 73431 is a EMD16-710G3A (3800HP) would be correct for most SD60s but that your SD60E has a 16-710G3B (4000HP) prime mover. So it's a small compromise. Sometimes the compromise has to be greater. I usually order from Tony's Trains, first doing my research, then asking them what they suggest. I'm not that fussy, as I want my different type locos to sound different (and an old Alco like an old Alco) but I live easily with the compromises so far. And if a better match comes along or i want to try another, I can do that if I have the LokProgrammer.
I suggest there's no need to jump into the LokProgrammer but also suggest you will want one eventually if you get into the LokSounds as your go-to choice going forward. I recently added the LokProgrammer and did my first sound file update, the dual motor E-unit file to replace the older single prime mover sound. Oh, and note that the LokSounds use some indexed CVs, where CVs >256 are used for many lighting and sound settings and index CVs 31 and/or 32 must be set as needed first before setting the higher number CVs.
Also, once you get into it, you may want to join the LokSound Yahoo user group. It's an additional place for questions and interesting to peruse for things of interest as they apply to your pursuits.
On the motor control tuning, I believe most folks just leave the BEMF set on the defaults without bothering to tweak, or less often certainly than with some decoders. In my case, I converted a Bachmann doodlebug to a Stanton drive, which has an unusual small motor contained within the powered truck. Well, it ran horribly. The Select manual offers some alternate setting, which did not help, but also the auto-BEMF tuning procedure described above. It worked.
I believe that if the dealer does not install your specific sound file, that the decoder comes with some generic sounds within, so it can be installed, tested (address change, etc) before loading a new file. One reason to order a generic might be faster shipping, if in a hurry. One reason for having it loaded is that the dealer (at Tony's, anyway) may not only load but test the decoder.
EDIT: Ugh! Just noticed it's a 2-yr old thread. Maybe useful anyway.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
wjstixNo. ESU decoders come pre-loaded with sound. It's just like other sound decoders, you pick which decoder you buy based on what shape - pin combination will fit best in your model, and which steam, diesel or electric sounds are on it. You can go re-program a decoder to have different sounds but they don't come "blank".
Sorry, but this is not totally correct. If you have a Lokprogrammer, you can indeed purchase a number of "blank" decoders and load them with the sound file of you choice by downloading said file from the ESU website.
And that precisely is oone of the major selling points for Loksound, there aren't Atlas board/EMD, Atlas board/Alco, Atlas board/GE, etc. SKUs. There's an Atlas board. Period. Load whatever sounds you want. Most major DCC dealers will load your choice of Loksound's sound files before shipping the decoder, so you don;t need a Lokprogrammer. However, the Lokprogrammer is on sle right now, and in addition to loading sound files, it also allows you to update the firmware in the decoder, gaining you the very latest features in a Loksound Select you may have purchased 3 years ago. No opening the loco, no swapping decoders.