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TCs KA2 Keep Alive Installs

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  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: La Mesa,CA
  • 145 posts
Posted by Marty C on Thursday, June 19, 2014 10:53 PM
Mark,
Thanks for the explanation. When I look at the connections with my magnifier it appears the two diodes at the bottom connect by trace to the +14v hole and the two at the other side connect to the hole with the ground symbol. I am trying not to confuse myself. The black and white wire on the KA2  that I usually connect to the anode on the OEM boards (negative) would connect to the end of the diode connected to +14v opposite the trace connection to the truck pick up? I do not see any bands on the diodes. Can I then connect the blue wire to the ground connection? Sorry for making this so difficult. You and Rich have been very patient and while I thought I had a good handle on these installations, I realize I still have a lot to learn. Thanks for helping.
Marty C
  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Ontario Canada
  • 3,574 posts
Posted by Mark R. on Thursday, June 19, 2014 11:37 PM

I just found this exact topic on the Soundtraxx Yahoo Group. According to their findings, you can indeed use the +14 pad and the ground pad.

The blue wire would connect to the +14 pad (or your common blue light wire) and the black wire would connect to the ground pad.

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

  • Member since
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  • From: La Mesa,CA
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Posted by Marty C on Friday, June 20, 2014 1:36 AM
Mark,
I am a member of that group also. Can you tell me the topic title? I see one that addresses the issue but it goes back to May and doesn't provide the info in your response. Is there another thread?
Thanks,
 
Marty
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    April 2004
  • From: Ontario Canada
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Posted by Mark R. on Friday, June 20, 2014 11:14 AM

Marty, this is the thread I found ....

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/soundtraxx/conversations/topics/31443

Message 14 of 21 by Gerry Hopkins.

Mark.

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  • Member since
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  • From: La Mesa,CA
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Posted by Marty C on Friday, June 20, 2014 1:20 PM
Mark,
I read the thread you sent. When I first started installing the Keep Alives in my GN tsunamis (factory installed) I tried connecting to the +14v pad and the common and all that did was keep the sound alive but not the motor. Marcus's page explains that the GN's are different and the connection should be to the diodes next to pads 12 and 11. That worked as advertised. I'm wondering why connecting to the +14v and ground pads on the KT would work when it didn't on the GN. I'm awaiting my next shipment of KA2's and will try a temporary connection as a test. Then I will tackle the board in the Proto.
Thanks,
 
Marty C
  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Ontario Canada
  • 3,574 posts
Posted by Mark R. on Friday, June 20, 2014 2:18 PM

Marty C
Mark,
I read the thread you sent. When I first started installing the Keep Alives in my GN tsunamis (factory installed) I tried connecting to the +14v pad and the common and all that did was keep the sound alive but not the motor. Marcus's page explains that the GN's are different and the connection should be to the diodes next to pads 12 and 11. That worked as advertised. I'm wondering why connecting to the +14v and ground pads on the KT would work when it didn't on the GN. I'm awaiting my next shipment of KA2's and will try a temporary connection as a test. Then I will tackle the board in the Proto.
Thanks,
 
Marty C
 

The GN-1000 are designed for the Athearn engines that use the 1.5 volt bulbs. If the KA2 is connected in the "normal" fashion (blue wire common and ground), it only receives a 1.5 volt charge voltage which is insufficient to do anything.

As for the pad being marked +14, I've read a mixed bag on that. It seems earlier versions of that decoder had a problem in that the pad wasn't functioning as expected. I had a couple of them I attempted to use that pad for common when installing LEDs and could not get them to work. Others claimed the same problem, while yet others used it just fine. Never did get a definitive answer as to what the problem was. Install your KA2 as per the directions on Marcus' page to be sure.

As a side bar, you keep contradicting terminology .... "common" on a decoder is the blue wire which is positive  and "ground" or "function sink" is negative.

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

  • Member since
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  • From: La Mesa,CA
  • 145 posts
Posted by Marty C on Friday, June 20, 2014 3:19 PM
Mark,
Sorry about the terminology. I guess I confuse easily. Here is the latest from Soundtraxx tech Dept. They are saying the connection should be to the band end of the orange diode in the middle. The other wire to the ground pad. Now because of my terminology contradictions I'm not sure which wire goes to each. I'm guessing the black/white wire to the ground pad (negative}and the blue to the diode (positive). Would that be right?
You have been very helpful and I appreciate the corrections as well.
 
Marty C
  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Ontario Canada
  • 3,574 posts
Posted by Mark R. on Friday, June 20, 2014 3:27 PM

LoL .... no problem Marty.

Yes, based on what they are saying, your assumptions would be correct.

Based on "typical" electronics, we usually refer to "common ground" as negative (not always, but in most cases). On a decoder, common and ground are two different things - common is positive and ground is negative.

I don't know if you picked up on it or not - on Marcus' page, he continually refers to the anode as the negative and cathode as the positive connection ! Don't know about you, but that's not what I was taught in all my years of electronics. I sent him a query as to why ....

Post back here with your results.

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

  • Member since
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  • From: La Mesa,CA
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Posted by Marty C on Friday, June 27, 2014 9:03 PM

Mark.

I received the KA2 and installed it on the TSU KT 1000 as we discussed. Blue wire to the orange diode on the bottom and Black/white wire to the ground pad. It works as advertised. Another challenge met. When I get energetic I will open up the Proto 2000 GP30 and investigate the connections on that factory installed board. Probably completely different again. I will post the results.

Thanks to you, Rich and others I learned a lot, including how to post the pictures. Thanks for the assist.

 

Marty C

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Ontario Canada
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Posted by Mark R. on Friday, June 27, 2014 9:41 PM

 

Mark.

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  • Member since
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  • From: La Mesa,CA
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Posted by Marty C on Thursday, August 21, 2014 12:39 AM

Just a follow up. After talking to the Soundtraxx support people and looking at the Tsunami's in the Proto GP 30 and GP 60 and the Intermountain, the connections for the "Keep Alives" are the same as the KT-1000. Blue wire to the band end of the orange diode on the bottom of the board and black wire to the small hole marked ground. I did the install on the Intermountain and it works fine. I have not yet figured out how to fit either the KA2 or Ka1 (or a current keeper) into the Proto's without significant cutting of weights but I'm still looking. I just wanted to post the new info in hopes it will help someone else.

Thanks again to all,

 

Marty C

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: La Mesa,CA
  • 145 posts
Posted by Marty C on Thursday, August 21, 2014 10:47 PM

Just in case anyone might be interested I found a solution to adding the "Keep Alive" to the Proto GP30. I removed the engineer figures from the cab and installed a TCS KA 1 sideways under the headlight assembly on a shelf I fashioned out of a piece of styrene. The wire connections are as previously mentioned. I threaded the blue wire through the +14v hole and soldered it to the band end of the orange diode on the bottom of the board. The black wire is soldered to the hole marked ground.

Here is a picture of the installation. I'm not the best at soldering but it works.

Next to tackle are the GP50's and the GP 20. Thanks to all for your help along the way.

 

Marty C

 

 

 photo decoders013_zps1173d937.jpg

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: La Mesa,CA
  • 145 posts
Posted by Marty C on Saturday, August 23, 2014 11:33 PM

All,

The installations of the KA 1's in the Proto GP 60's are done. It is the same set up as the GP30. I gave up on the GP20 as it is just too tight in the shell without milling the wieghts. I have now installed about 20 KA 1/2's and Current Keepers and I have found that finding room for the Keep Alive's in the various shell was more challenging than the soldering on the connections.. My two car garage layout was built years ago as DC and while it has been modified numerous times I still had problems with stalling on switch frogs. I added some additional feeders when I shifted to DCC but the problem remained. I really did not want to change out the older Atlas switches so installing the Keep Alives seemed like a reasonable alternative. I have Athearn, Kato, Proto and Atlas engines and have put the Keep Alives in all except the Atlas which being heavier don't seem to have as much trouble on the frogs. With the Keep Alives, operating at slow speeds in and around the yards and sidings has improved dramatically and makes for more enjoyable operating. I still clean the track and wheels (afterall it is a garage) but I really like the results.

Thats my last two cents except to say thanks to all who provided information along the way.

 

Marty C

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